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Having difficulties choosing a "budget endgame" nearfield bookshelf speaker

With limited budget, you simply can’t really improve. Only the other mentioned things like room correction and room treatment can make a difference and often much more than a “better” speaker could.
So what, all the claims of higher end speakers having this and that sound is all mostly placebo? For what it's worth, changing from my old audio engine A5s to "serious" speakers like the kefs produced a significant improvement in sound, so I was looking for a similar step up.
 
So what, all the claims of higher end speakers having this and that sound is all mostly placebo?
Not placebo, it is called sight bias, it is leading to subjective comments produce by the listener brain interpretation of what he hears. 99% of the comments are not grounded on fact and reality.
Fact is the room interaction with any speaker will have a more profond effect than anything else except for the recording effect.
 

Kali IN-5 is an active bookshelves that cost around 700 USD for a pair.​

  • -3dB (resp. -6db) point v.s. reference is at 45.4Hz (resp. 42.5Hz).
  • Frequency deviation is 1.8dB over the same frequency range.
  • Tonality (Preference) Score
    • Tonality (Preference) Score is 5.12 and would be 7.13with a perfect subwoofer.

KEF Q150 is a passive bookshelves that cost around 500 USD for a pair.​

  • -3dB (resp. -6db) point v.s. reference is at 52.7Hz (resp. 48.3Hz).
  • Frequency deviation is 2.7dB over the same frequency range.
  • Tonality (Preference) Score
    • Tonality (Preference) Score is 4.86 and would be 7.06with a perfect subwoofer.

Kali IN-8v2 is an active bookshelves that cost around 760 USD for a pair.​

  • -3dB (resp. -6db) point v.s. reference is at 45.4Hz (resp. 41.0Hz).
  • Frequency deviation is 3.0dB over the same frequency range.
  • Tonality (Preference) Score
    • Tonality (Preference) Score is 5.36 and would be 7.3with a perfect subwoofer.
also look at distortion and compression
Fidelia scores 6.45 and 8.46
 
Large soundstage from a desk top setup with speakers place against the wall is going to be a challenge. Your issue is not what speakers you have, it is how your are using them.
This is also a good point. Even with wider directivity speakers you'll have a hard time with the 'big' sound one can get.
 
So what, all the claims of higher end speakers having this and that sound is all mostly placebo? For what it's worth, changing from my old audio engine A5s to "serious" speakers like the kefs produced a significant improvement in sound, so I was looking for a similar step up.
Mostly. You are dealing with two things. One, the AEs are poor, like not very neutral or flat which is the goal. But you can't get flatter than flat, right? (within reason.)

So you made the big jump already. You still have things to improve but they will be substantially more expensive. Maybe $2k a pair.
 
I get the feeling you just want better speakers, not better sound. Bragging rights? Money burning in your pocket?
 
I get the feeling you just want better speakers, not better sound. Bragging rights? Money burning in your pocket?
Don't they go hand in hand? I mean I've had these for 8 years now, feels like it might be time for an upgrade. Even my custom jh audio iems are multiple times more expensive than these speakers, which is a strange notion when I've seen audiophiles with speakers that go all the way to hundreds of thousands of dollars, making my old kef look basically ultra-entry level in terms of market positioning. Prior to comments here I had no clue that these entry level kefs were so impressive that apparently you need 2k speakers to dethrone it.
 
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In the nearfield direct sound dominates, while a large soundstage requires some reflected sounds from nearby surfaces and walls. It's going to be difficult.
How much do you think the kef coaxial and uni-q design contributes to this? Because I find my current one already pretty decent despite being nearfield. I'm not asking for gigantic concert hall soundstage, just a reasonable upgrade from the kefs.
 
Don't they go hand in hand? . Even my custom jh audio iems are multiple times more expensive than these speakers, which is a strange notion when I've seen audiophiles with speakers that go all the way to hundreds of thousands of dollars, making my old kef look basically ultra-entry level in terms of market positioning.

So little time and so much to learn.
 
I barely hear anything of my room tbh.
That would really surprize me. Of course you don't hear the room as such, but its size, form and the placement of your speakers in it can drastically change their in-room frequency response.
There's a lot of furniture and stuff so I wouldn't even know where to begin. It's not a dedicated listening room.
I have the same situation (scroll down to see the thumbnails - only members of that forum can pop up the full size pictures, but the thumbnails are good enough to get an idea) and when I first heard my nearfield monitors I was delighted. But when I measured the frequency response at my listening position it became clear that the 2 speakers performed rather different due to their differents placements in the room. Anyway because I liked the sound as it was I first did not bother to EQ them.

But after a while (was it days or weeks? - I don't remember) the upper bass became a bit too present in my liking, so I looked into the frequency plots again and set up correction using EQApo (in Windows). You can see the resulting correction curves here (again scroll down to the thumbnails, those with the red fillings). Notice how different they are, paricularly in the upper bass / lower midrange from about 200Hz upwards. Given that I first liked the sound as it was un-EQ'd I was really surprized how strong - deep and high - corrections were necessary for a flat f-response at my listening position in my room. It gave me a considerable, I would almost say huge improvement in precision, and it also became a lot more long-term-listening friendly.

Before you buy another pair of speakers which in your situation would likely produce a similar in-room f-response as your present ones I'd definitely say do the measurement and use an EQ to flatten it, or adjust it to your liking. This is likely a lot cheaper than buying new speakers, and has the potential to bring a very substantial improvement.
 

So little time and so much to learn.
Shrugs I'm not using the roxanne, mine's the 16, but as I said, i've moved on from IEMs for quite some time now.
 
That would really surprize me. Of course you don't hear the room as such, but its size, form and the placement of your speakers in it can drastically change their in-room frequency response.

I have the same situation (scroll down to see the thumbnails - only members of that forum can pop up the full size pictures, but the thumbnails are good enough to get an idea) and when I first heard my nearfield monitors I was delighted. But when I measured the frequency response at my listening position it became clear that the 2 speakers performed rather different due to their differents placements in the room. Anyway because I liked the sound as it was I first did not bother to EQ them.

But after a while (was it days or weeks? - I don't remember) the upper bass became a bit too present in my liking, so I looked into the frequency plots again and set up correction using EQApo (in Windows). You can see the resulting correction curves here (again scroll down to the thumbnails, those with the red fillings). Notice how different they are, paricularly in the upper bass / lower midrange from about 200Hz upwards. Given that I first liked the sound as it was un-EQ'd I was really surprized how strong - deep and high - corrections were necessary for a flat f-response at my listening position in my room. It gave me a considerable, I would almost say huge improvement in precision, and it also became a lot more long-term-listening friendly.

Before you buy another pair of speakers which in your situation would likely produce a similar in-room f-response as your present ones I'd definitely say do the measurement and use an EQ to flatten it, or adjust it to your liking. This is likely a lot cheaper than buying new speakers, and has the potential to bring a very substantial improvement.
This is interesting. Is there a... proper way to go about it? I copied the rating site's suggested EQ for the kefs and it came out so badly. The mids sounded destroyed and muffled, so I turned that off and never EQ-ed again.
 
Move away from the table, switch to mid field. Make sure you use full room length and find as perfect placement you can afford. Obviously use calibration mic with calibration working for software you want to use. If you cant get UMIK-1 for REW any decent one will work as long as you pair it with also decent separate SPL meter. Tho they aint exactly bookshelfs you get quite solid stands with them for the price. Old hanky Lintons 85th Anniversary edition. You get relatively wide radiation patern, quite good stress out from standard 80 Hz XO, they are three way. Keep the Speedwoofer 12S to music preset and when you get chance get another one and switch to 2.2 with proper ELC integration. If you have space for all mentioned and eventually milled acoustic treatment to improve reverberation times (still takes place lower you want to go).
 
Well I have to say this thread makes me feel great, got the Q150 to use for rear surround, $315 delivered!

I also have OG LS50 I got secondhand for $750 delivered, keep looking for more, but prices are higher now

For desk nearfield maybe look at LSX II LT does not "need" to be wireless. My local Costco had them at $500
 
Is there a... proper way to go about it?
There is, but generally speaking, it is a complex matter. It's easier to EQ just to one position - in my case, where I sit in front of my computer setup. If it's the same for you, then it's pretty straight forward.
I copied the rating site's suggested EQ for the kefs and it came out so badly. The mids sounded destroyed and muffled, so I turned that off and never EQ-ed again.
That's no wonder if you know that the same speaker can give quite differing results in different rooms, or even in the same room if placed differently, or if listened to from a different position.
 
This is interesting. Is there a... proper way to go about it? I copied the rating site's suggested EQ for the kefs and it came out so badly. The mids sounded destroyed and muffled, so I turned that off and never EQ-ed again.

Spinorama's suggested EQ is for far-field listening so it might not necessarily work for your case. You can download the dataset, load the frequency curve (CEA2034) into REW and try EQing it to flat with only negative gain filters, see if you like the sound better that way.
 
is t
The starting point is to get a mic and do some sweeps with REW to see what's going on.

Under $1k you can probably find some used Genelec or maybe LS50 if you get lucky, but as others have said for near field you are starting from a decently high baseline.
The thing I worry about with Genelecs is that they are active. Not sure if that decreases their longevity. With the current passive setup I have if the amp/dsp is busted I can modular-ly swap it out. With the used genelecs I run the risk of a thousand dollar brick as I assume no one can really fix em at a decent cost.
 
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