Having difficulties choosing a "budget endgame" nearfield bookshelf speaker

[Zerothezone]

Been using a kef q150 for some years now and really like the soundstage depth, and I don't have significant gripes (it was my first foray into "serious speakers" so I don't really have a point of comparison but I like them a lot) but it's been pretty long now and I'm itching to take the next step upwards. Been weighing around a ton of options and it's honestly been really difficult to decide. I'm looking mostly in the sub-1k price bracket for passive speakers. I listen exclusively nearfield on a desk setup.

From what I've seen on the net, there are some US direct brands like Ascend and Philharmonic making speakers that punch way above their price, but the problem for me is that I'm not from the US , and the shipping fees apparently obliterate most of the cost savings. That coupled with an already established used market for kefs, elacs, and other major brands and local retailers for brands like ascilab, really makes me uncertain as to what to actually settle for.

My foremost requirement for a speaker is an exceedingly large soundstage (basically an upgrade to the q150's) for immersion, stereo imaging, as well as punchy, tactile notes, and I heavily dislike "smooth/lush" types.

I already have a decent speedwoofer sub, so low end extension on the shelf speakers aren't really my priority, and i also basically have them backed up against the wall in a desk setup.

I've compared from a few different sources and they all have wildly different scorings. For example the CM-170SE2 seemed great on spinorama, but speaker rankings somehow has it all the way at 68 which is pretty low, considering a used elab ubr can easily be found for about 550usd around here, while the shipping fee for the CM would just blow it way past the 600usd mark. Not really keen on the ls50s either, since apparently, people who've transitioned from the q150s to the LS50s don't exactly describe it as being blown away.

Would appreciate any input from the experienced members here on the best value bookshelfs I can get

 

[ShadowBoxer]

If "budget endgame" were a thing it would be different for every budget.

 

[Zerothezone]

If "budget endgame" were a thing it would be different for every budget.

Right, and my specified budget is the best value in the sub-1k category, specifically for nearfield 1-1.2m listening.

 

[melomane13]

kali audio in-8 v2 or in-5

 

[Puddingbuks]

Invest in room correction. I have a set of focal st6 with a sub at my home office and was blown away by the difference sonarworks soundID made to the sound. Without it is like “okay” but with correction enabled, it is really on another level.

Or start with buying a measurement mic and see whats the frequency response and decay/echo really is in your room.

 

[Zerothezone]

kali audio in-8 v2 or in-5

I checked it out on spinorama and it seems like it's only rated a 7.3 on spinorama while in-5 is a 7.1 which is the same as my kef q150s. Would feel like a sidegrade if the numbers are accurate. To be honest the reason i singled out asci and ascend is they have very high scores.

 

[Curvature]

Been using a kef q150 for some years now and really like the soundstage depth, and I don't have significant gripes (it was my first foray into "serious speakers" so I don't really have a point of comparison but I like them a lot) but it's been pretty long now and I'm itching to take the next step upwards. Been weighing around a ton of options and it's honestly been really difficult to decide. I'm looking mostly in the sub-1k price bracket for passive speakers. I listen exclusively nearfield on a desk setup.

From what I've seen on the net, there are some US direct brands like Ascend and Philharmonic making speakers that punch way above their price, but the problem for me is that I'm not from the US , and the shipping fees apparently obliterate most of the cost savings. That coupled with an already established used market for kefs, elacs, and other major brands and local retailers for brands like ascilab, really makes me uncertain as to what to actually settle for.

My foremost requirement for a speaker is an exceedingly large soundstage (basically an upgrade to the q150's) for immersion, stereo imaging, as well as punchy, tactile notes, and I heavily dislike "smooth/lush" types.

I already have a decent speedwoofer sub, so low end extension on the shelf speakers aren't really my priority, and i also basically have them backed up against the wall in a desk setup.

I've compared from a few different sources and they all have wildly different scorings. For example the CM-170SE2 seemed great on spinorama, but speaker rankings somehow has it all the way at 68 which is pretty low, considering a used elab ubr can easily be found for about 550usd around here, while the shipping fee for the CM would just blow it way past the 600usd mark. Not really keen on the ls50s either, since apparently, people who've transitioned from the q150s to the LS50s don't exactly describe it as being blown away.

Would appreciate any input from the experienced members here on the best value bookshelfs I can get

Personally I think you need to change your approach. Assess what you have now vs. what money could buy you.

Let's look at the measurements:

• https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF Q150/ErinsAudioCorner/index_eac.html
• https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_q150/

The only things that would subjectively matter in a better speaker would be flat on-axis, no resonances or cancellations, somewhat tighter off-axis radiation with deeper control (look at the -6dB contour and where it goes from relatively constant to flaring wider), and deeper extension. Realistically the speakers should be coaxial as well for those distances to achieve a consistent listening experience. The only ones that come to mind that would make a significant difference would be the Genelec coaxials, specifically the 8341 or 8351.

Assuming you have EQed the direct sound, you will have achieved pretty much end-game sound quality above 1kHz with your current setup. Your budget doesn't allow a better speaker worth the money.

Edit: Adding the links to the Genelec speakers:

• https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Genelec 8341A/ASR/index_asr-vertical.html
• https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Genelec 8351B/ASR/index_asr-vertical.html

 

[Mort]

Personally I think you need to change your approach. Assess what you have now vs. what money could buy you.

Let's look at the measurements: https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/KEF Q150/ErinsAudioCorner/index_eac.html

Kef Q150 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef Q150 Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

The only things that would subjectively matter in a better speaker would be flat on-axis, no resonances or cancellations, somewhat tighter off-axis radiation with deeper control (look at the -6dB contour and where it goes from relatively constant to flaring wider), and deeper extension. Realistically the speakers should be coaxial as well for those distances to achieve a consistent listening experience. The only ones that come to mind that would make a significant difference would be the Genelec coaxials, specifically the 8341 or 8351.

Assuming you have EQed the direct sound, you will have achieved pretty much end-game sound quality above 1kHz with your current setup. Your budget doesn't allow a better speaker worth the money.

This is unfortunately true

 

[Zerothezone]

This is unfortunately true

So a coaxial is basically a must at that distance? I also don't really get it, on one hand I see comments around saying the q150 is readily beaten by many other speakers sub-1000 on the other hand for nearfield this isnt the case? There are lots of other coaxials in a higher tier than the q150 but still within the sub-1000 bracket afaik no?

 

[Redacted]

I checked it out on spinorama and it seems like it's only rated a 7.3 on spinorama while in-5 is a 7.1....

Other than eliminating the obviously bad speakers I would not place too much store on ratings, internet reviews, marketing materials etc., as it's often made up for profit.

Too many variables come into play when you try a speaker in your own environment.

I afraid that it's always a lottery, especially when speakers need to be close.

The only recommendation I'd make is to use a dealer in your own country (or a manufacturer with a local office) that will take speakers back and exchange for something different if you can't get on with them. I have found Richer Sounds in the UK to be OK - I have sent items back, but admittedly not speakers, but check them out, maybe ring the nearest branch and ask to speak to the manager and see if he can help a serious buyer.

 

[NotInYourHead]

Honestly you outdid yourself buying such good speakers from the get-go, the next step up is going to be much much more expensive. I'd start looking into room acoustics, room EQ, correcting the Q150's natural flaws and take care of the desk (always the fly in the ointment for nearfield listening)

 

[Mort]

see comments around saying the q150 is readily beaten by many other speakers sub-1000

Can you give some examples?

 

[Zerothezone]

Honestly you outdid yourself buying such good speakers from the get-go, the next step up is going to be much much more expensive. I'd start looking into room acoustics, room EQ, correcting the Q150's natural flaws and take care of the desk (always the fly in the ointment for nearfield listening)

tbh im pretty surprised. I thought the q150s were great but not to that extent. Just got it because it was good value at its price point. I barely hear anything of my room tbh. There's a lot of furniture and stuff so I wouldn't even know where to begin. It's not a dedicated listening room.

 

[101geo]

Audio First Designs Fidelia is the best small passive speaker I've heard

 

[Zerothezone]

Can you give some examples?

I have never seen a source recommend a q150 as the best performing bookshelf speaker when shopping in the ~1k bracket nor the best value. Lately it's always been either the Ascend's or something else like the Philharmonics, Elacs and so on.

 

[Mort]

I have never seen a source recommend a q150 as the best performing bookshelf speaker when shopping in the ~1k bracket nor the best value.

Right but what is?

 

[Zerothezone]

Right but what is?

I don't know. I'm mostly an IEM person who graduated to speakers. Only ever owned the q150s so I really don't have any reference on how other more expensive speakers sound.

 

[melomane13]

I checked it out on spinorama and it seems like it's only rated a 7.3 on spinorama while in-5 is a 7.1 which is the same as my kef q150s. Would feel like a sidegrade if the numbers are accurate. To be honest the reason i singled out asci and ascend is they have very high scores.

Kali IN-5 is an active bookshelves that cost around 700 USD for a pair.​

• -3dB (resp. -6db) point v.s. reference is at 45.4Hz (resp. 42.5Hz).
• Frequency deviation is 1.8dB over the same frequency range.
• Tonality (Preference) Score
  • Tonality (Preference) Score is 5.12 and would be 7.13with a perfect subwoofer.

KEF Q150 is a passive bookshelves that cost around 500 USD for a pair.​

• -3dB (resp. -6db) point v.s. reference is at 52.7Hz (resp. 48.3Hz).
• Frequency deviation is 2.7dB over the same frequency range.
• Tonality (Preference) Score
  • Tonality (Preference) Score is 4.86 and would be 7.06with a perfect subwoofer.

Kali IN-8v2 is an active bookshelves that cost around 760 USD for a pair.​

• -3dB (resp. -6db) point v.s. reference is at 45.4Hz (resp. 41.0Hz).
• Frequency deviation is 3.0dB over the same frequency range.
• Tonality (Preference) Score
  • Tonality (Preference) Score is 5.36 and would be 7.3with a perfect subwoofer.

also look at distortion and compression

 

[Puddingbuks]

With limited budget, you simply can’t really improve. Only the other mentioned things like room correction and room treatment can make a difference and often much more than a “better” speaker could.

 

[Cote Dazur]

My foremost requirement for a speaker is an exceedingly large soundstage

I listen exclusively nearfield on a desk setup.

i also basically have them backed up against the wall in a desk setup

Large soundstage from a desk top setup with speakers place against the wall is going to be a challenge. Your issue is not what speakers you have, it is how your are using them.