Having a Feeling of Shame Gives Rise to Courage--SMSL M500 V2

[Shoaibexpert]

Any ideas what sort of PSU this thing has? Linear inside by any chance? Coz you can't attach a linear to it I guess...

Also, is the M500 synchronous or asynchronous to the optical signal? I mean does it correct jitter issues in optical signals? Thanks

Any comments on these questions are most welcome. I was considering getting a IFI iPurifier2 SPDIF/Toslink cleaner/reclocker to use between my Chromecast Audio TOSLINK and M500, but then saw here on ASR that better DACs remove jitter from Toslink. Am not sure if the M500 V2 does that...I mean, I see a DPLL setting (new in V2) so I am guessing its something to do with that jitter correction. Anyways, wanted a bit more info before I shell out my money on a not so needed purifier. Just to add and i might be wrong but to me the Chromecast TOSLINK seems to have a blacker background as compared to the USB, just my observation - did some A/B for it. Thanks

 

[Jimbob54]

Any comments on these questions are most welcome. I was considering getting a IFI iPurifier2 SPDIF/Toslink cleaner/reclocker to use between my Chromecast Audio TOSLINK and M500, but then saw here on ASR that better DACs remove jitter from Toslink. Am not sure if the M500 V2 does that...I mean, I see a DPLL setting (new in V2) so I am guessing its something to do with that jitter correction. Anyways, wanted a bit more info before I shell out my money on a not so needed purifier. Just to add and i might be wrong but to me the Chromecast TOSLINK seems to have a blacker background as compared to the USB, just my observation - did some A/B for it. Thanks

You are asking the wrong question. It's not "does my dac handle SPDIF jitter?" you should be asking. After all, you're happy with its performance aren't you? Black background etc?

You should be asking does the ifi work?

Not really is the answer.. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-ipurifier-s-pdif-digital-audio-filter.2189/5

But I get the sense you'll buy it anyway, because you just can't leave that dac alone to do its thing

 

[BDWoody]

Any comments on these questions are most welcome. I was considering getting a IFI iPurifier2 SPDIF/Toslink cleaner/reclocker to use between my Chromecast Audio TOSLINK and M500, but then saw here on ASR that better DACs remove jitter from Toslink. Am not sure if the M500 V2 does that...I mean, I see a DPLL setting (new in V2) so I am guessing its something to do with that jitter correction. Anyways, wanted a bit more info before I shell out my money on a not so needed purifier. Just to add and i might be wrong but to me the Chromecast TOSLINK seems to have a blacker background as compared to the USB, just my observation - did some A/B for it. Thanks

My comment would be that none of that is needed. Where you read that 'the better DAC's' effectively deal with incoming jitter, a better DAC in this case would be any that are considered competent. It's been a while (older Schiit DAC's?) since I remember reading about jitter handling being a problem with anything recent or recommended.

In any case, if you aren't identifying a problem, but are looking to make the black's blacker, or the PRaT more whatever the measurement for that is, other than in a placebo sense, you aren't going to get there by throwing money at it in that way.

We have already agreed that people will hear what they want to anyway, so the fact that it has been shown to be worthless certainly hasn't and won't matter to many.

FWIW, I have a CCA going into my M500, and it's always performed flawlessly.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

You are asking the wrong question. It's not "does my dac handle SPDIF jitter?" you should be asking. After all, you're happy with its performance aren't you? Black background etc?

You should be asking does the ifi work?

Not really is the answer.. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-ipurifier-s-pdif-digital-audio-filter.2189/5

But I get the sense you'll buy it anyway, because you just can't leave that dac alone to do its thing

Thanks for the link

 

[Shoaibexpert]

My comment would be that none of that is needed. Where you read that 'the better DAC's' effectively deal with incoming jitter, a better DAC in this case would be any that are considered competent. It's been a while (older Schiit DAC's?) since I remember reading about jitter handling being a problem with anything recent or recommended.

In any case, if you aren't identifying a problem, but are looking to make the black's blacker, or the PRaT more whatever the measurement for that is, other than in a placebo sense, you aren't going to get there by throwing money at it in that way.

We have already agreed that people will hear what they want to anyway, so the fact that it has been shown to be worthless certainly hasn't and won't matter to many.

FWIW, I have a CCA going into my M500, and it's always performed flawlessly.

You are right. I just went through a ESS 9038 datasheet to understand just what how DPLL eliminates jitter...kinda! Anyways not an EE here.

Have you noticed blacker background in the CCA as compared to USB? Maybe some EMF noise in my USB chain is causing the sound to be flat when compared to the CCA. Thanks

 

[BDWoody]

Have you noticed blacker background in the CCA as compared to USB? Maybe some EMF noise in my USB chain is causing the sound to be flat when compared to the CCA. Thanks

I use both the USB and the Toslink connections, and haven't noticed a difference.

 

[Jimbob54]

Thanks for the link

I have a question for you. You're obviously a tinkerer, nothing wrong with that per se. But have you ever introduced a tweak/ accessory / thing into your system that has had a negative impact on the performance, in your opinion?

You've been sold on PSUs I see, you'll probably buy the SPDIF cleaner thingy. I'm sure that will address some as yet unidentified issue in your current system when you plug it in.

Funny thing is , you never seem to post saying you've observed an issue in your current set up. You've always read that something corrects an issue / causes an issue then post here asking questions as to whether your system may be affected by said issue.

I suppose I'm just trying to understand what you are trying to achieve with your set up.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

But have you ever introduced a tweak/ accessory / thing into your system that has had a negative impact on the performance, in your opinion?

Yes off course. I bought the AQ Jitterbug once...rolled off highs and made my music lifeless. Returned it. I once bought a AuCharm USB cable thinking it was well shielded and had two ferrite cores at both ends...again maybe due to impedence issues or what not...seemed to take life and dynamics out of my music. Changed that to the USB 2.0 cable that came with the M500 and it was better. The thing with audio beyond the realm of objectivity is that what is heard cannot be unheard...I could be wrong here but that's how I see it. So, personally without saying what I feel is right, it's why I keep tinkering occasionally with new stuff to improve my audio experience. I do note that most of the times, even if true, what appears to subjectively improve audio SQ is actually not better but different.

All this to just get that last 5% improvement if it can be had...the linear PSU actually took me close to that...you should try it honestly, if you use CCA... though there may not be any objective reason that I can present...it just removed the glare which meant blacker background and just overall clean experience. I know sounds very subjective and I could be in the wrong here...

 

[Shoaibexpert]

I use both the USB and the Toslink connections, and haven't noticed a difference.

Thanks

 

[Shoaibexpert]

You've always read that something corrects an issue / causes an issue then post here asking questions as to whether your system may be affected by said issue.

All in the name of exploring new things mate.

 

[Sal1950]

Just to add and i might be wrong but to me the Chromecast TOSLINK seems to have a blacker background as compared to the USB, just my observation - did some A/B for it.

Would you kindly explane what a blacker background sounds like ???
I'm very curious

 

[the_brunx]

Quite disappointed to find out I have the HW: 1.2 version. will placing it over my hot class A amp improve performance?.
did SMSL say what they changed? so much is unclear.

 

[Jimbob54]

Quite disappointed to find out I have the HW: 1.2 version. will placing it over my hot class A amp improve performance?.
did SMSL say what they changed? so much is unclear.

Were you upset with performance before you read anything about it or knew your HW version?

Its a good DAC - enjoy it.

 

[the_brunx]

Were you upset with performance before you read anything about it or knew your HW version?

Its a good DAC - enjoy it.

do you have the HW:1.3 version? we can trade.

 

[Jimbob54]

do you have the HW:1.3 version? we can trade.

Nope, 1.2 and it works great.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Would you kindly explane what a blacker background sounds like ???
I'm very curious

They dont have sound at all

Anyways, subjectively speaking, I am hearing less lingering on of instruments and vocals with the CCA which basically means there is more noticeable silence in between all that stuff thats going on in a song. Anyways, as many might have guessed rightly so, it may be placebo.

Anyways, i did have a quick chat with IFI audio and they said that one of their products ie the SPDIF iPurifier (reclocker) is not needed for DACs having a secondary and precise PLL. Was the first time I saw a manufacturer coming out clean on when their products become basically snake oil.

So the question was does the SMSL M500 has that secondary and precise PLL? I know that there is a DPLL option in the DAC (which I am guessing is in the 9038pro chip itself...i could be wrong) and from what Ive read, setting the value to the lowest with stable stream results in max jitter reduction. Just wanted to confirm from the cheetas out here? Thanks

 

[Veri]

So the question was does the SMSL M500 has that secondary and precise PLL? I know that there is a DPLL option in the DAC (which I am guessing is in the 9038pro chip itself...i could be wrong) and from what Ive read, setting the value to the lowest with stable stream results in max jitter reduction.

It does

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Alright, I won't say if it makes a difference or not but I ask those who want to tinker a bit (and may be happy to get surprised) to do these and see if in their subjective listening and by A/B if they can tell a difference - provided you have a revealing enough system:

For USB users:
1. Turn the DPLL to MIN or untill you hear a stable signal on the M500 - since USB is less prone to Jitter, I am assuming you can go all the way down to MIN,
2. Oversample the 44.1K stream to 352.8K within windows (non Tidal exclusive mode for example)

OR

For Toslink users:
1. Grab a battery pack, charge is fully and power the say the Chromecast Audio with that or better yet use a Linear Power Supply,
2. Again, turn the DPLL all the way to MIN or untill you hear a stable signal from the M500.

Try to go between MIN to MAX on the DPLL and see how the sound changes (if any).

Don't be shy to report back if you feel like it and hear any changes in your musical experience...ignore if you don't care! Just letting it out there. Without going into the technical details, let's just say this new DPLL option in the M500V2 is a very nice feature to have...many higher end DACs don't have this as user configurable! YMMV

Most of all, enjoy your music!

 

[Veri]

or better yet use a Linear Power Supply

We don't do that around here, sir

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...audio-myth-switching-power-supplies-are-noisy

 

[Jimbob54]

We don't do that around here, sir

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...audio-myth-switching-power-supplies-are-noisy

I'm not keen on the "if you're system is revealing enough" rider either.

So if I don't hear a difference, but someone else claims to, its not because they imagined it, its because my system isn't revealing enough.