Having a Feeling of Shame Gives Rise to Courage--SMSL M500 V2

[Jimbob54]

Thanks! So, using my multimeter I'm guessing I set it to DC and then put the positive lead in the center of the rca output and the negative on the outside perimeter? Do I need to be playing audio at the same time?

I'll let someone competent tell you that!

 

[maverickronin]

Thanks! So, using my multimeter I'm guessing I set it to DC and then put the positive lead in the center of the rca output and the negative on the outside perimeter? Do I need to be playing audio at the same time?

You'll need a multimeter with a low voltage AC range and probably play a 50 or 60hz tone from the DAC since the AC range on most multimeters is really only optimized for mains frequencies.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

You'll need a multimeter with a low voltage AC range and probably play a 50 or 60hz tone from the DAC since the AC range on most multimeters is really only optimized for mains frequencies.

Thanks for this. I'm going to start another thread about this since I have more questions..

But on another note; I figured out the volume discrepancy on the M500 vs Modi 3 from the rca outputs.. Tidal appears to have defaulted to "volume normalization" when I connected my new M500. Turned it off and volume increased dramatically (at least on Adele's "Hello"). Volume sounds on par with Modi 3 now

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

@WolfX-700 would you happen to recall what volume level you had the M500 at for these measurements? Thank you for you work!

Also, rca and xlr outputs from my M500 to my SMSL DA-8S play at pretty much the same volume (M500 volume maxed out to 40). Is this correct?

 

[rithwikipedia]

Do you think the model being sold on Hifi Express (which I believe is operated by SMSL) is the Mk. 2? As mentioned, there's nothing specified in the listing about updates, but I'd hope that the items being shipped currently would be the newest iteration.

I have the M300 mk. 2 and absolutely love it, but am going to list it for sale so that I can upgrade and get the second MQA unfold.

 

[Veri]

I have the M300 mk. 2 and absolutely love it, but am going to list it for sale so that I can upgrade and get the second MQA unfold.

Just for an unfold? Prepare to be disappointed, honestly

 

[rithwikipedia]

Just for an unfold? Prepare to be disappointed, honestly

you think so? the completionist in me is annoyed that I didn't just spend the extra $100 initially, since it's so accessible via Tidal. idk, I won't pull the trigger unless I manage to sell it. not going to list actively, just try and pawn it off to a friend!

 

[Jimbob54]

you think so? the completionist in me is annoyed that I didn't just spend the extra $100 initially, since it's so accessible via Tidal. idk, I won't pull the trigger unless I manage to sell it. not going to list actively, just try and pawn it off to a friend!

Yup, @Veri is right. I have the M500- I have 2 options, slave it as a DAC via optical to my streamer (getting any unfolded MQA up to 24/96), or connect to PC direct via USB and get the full unfold. For convenience I prefer option 1 ( I can use the remote on streamer , etc etc ) but I have not once since I connected this way felt the need to go via USB to get the (few) 24/192 Tidal MQA fully unfolded . Honestly, you wont miss it. There is no "wow, how have I lived without this" moment when you hear 24/192 compared to the same track only with the first unfold. I've not done proper testing, just heard nothing to make it worth the effort to lose the convenience I have.

I'd apply that logic to the effort and financial penalties of selling M300 to buy M500 just for that.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

I guess the question for us old users of M500 is...is it worth going through upgrading it to V2...sound improvement wise and on 44.1K streams?

This happened to people with SU-8 and i hate this sort of beta testing by SMSL.

@SMSL-Mandy and @SMSL_Liu anyway for us to upgrade it to V2 ... I bought from Aoshida HiFi Store...

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

Yup, @Veri is right. I have the M500- I have 2 options, slave it as a DAC via optical to my streamer (getting any unfolded MQA up to 24/96), or connect to PC direct via USB and get the full unfold. For convenience I prefer option 1 ( I can use the remote on streamer , etc etc ) but I have not once since I connected this way felt the need to go via USB to get the (few) 24/192 Tidal MQA fully unfolded . Honestly, you wont miss it. There is no "wow, how have I lived without this" moment when you hear 24/192 compared to the same track only with the first unfold. I've not done proper testing, just heard nothing to make it worth the effort to lose the convenience I have.

I'd apply that logic to the effort and financial penalties of selling M300 to buy M500 just for that.

Is that really all it does? It's not adding anything else to the MQA process up to 24/96?

If that's the case I guess you can take a look at some 192khz MQA music on Tidal here and see if it feels worth it to try:
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/1cbce60c-2412-451e-a1e1-39faf87b617b
https://www.reddit.com/r/TIdaL/comments/bsm91s

 

[Veri]

@SMSL-Mandy and @SMSL_Liu anyway for us to upgrade it to V2 ... I bought from Aoshida HiFi Store...

V2 is a hardware revision. So that won't be possible...

 

[Jimbob54]

Is that really all it does? It's not adding anything else to the MQA process up to 24/96?

If that's the case I guess you can take a look at some 192khz MQA music on Tidal here and see if it feels worth it to try:
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/1cbce60c-2412-451e-a1e1-39faf87b617b
https://www.reddit.com/r/TIdaL/comments/bsm91s

I'm not the man to give you the technical answer, but yes. As long as you have set tidal app on pc to do the software decode, not pass thru, it will do that first fold and send to dac the 24/96 or whatever. If you tell software to pass through it sends unfolded to dac which will do as many unfolds as it can. First to 24/96 (or 88.2 or whatever) then, on full spec dacs like m500, the second unfold if one exists in the file.

I don't believe from a digital perspective it matters where that first unfold happens.

 

[rithwikipedia]

I'm not the man to give you the technical answer, but yes. As long as you have set tidal app on pc to do the software decode, not pass thru, it will do that first fold and send to dac the 24/96 or whatever. If you tell software to pass through it sends unfolded to dac which will do as many unfolds as it can. First to 24/96 (or 88.2 or whatever) then, on full spec dacs like m500, the second unfold if one exists in the file.

I don't believe from a digital perspective it matters where that first unfold happens.

this was super helpful, thanks for the summary! yeah in that case it makes the value prop a lot less enticing. Maybe I'll look into HQP and messing around with DSP instead, which is also a world that I haven't dabbled in at all.

 

[renaudrenaud]

Did not see this thread until now. So...

It's "V2" !

 

[Shoaibexpert]

V2 is a hardware revision. So that won't be possible...

I'm wondering if me getting pissed at SMSL is justified then? But then it isn't a HW revision is it...I mean has any component changed? Or is it just that they released a half baked product and sorted things and released a properly cooked version later. In a sense, us discussing this here on ASR is helping SMSL gain new sales of the same product that should have been this back then! I wonder if other vendors do the same...I'm waiting for D90 V2 then (which won't happen maybe coz it doesn't need to as they did it right first time!)

This probably is where people like myself should realize that SMSL is perhaps a shoddy company and their products cannot be trusted to work best from start! Guess going cheap has its perils!

 

[renaudrenaud]

I'm wondering if me getting pissed at SMSL is justified then? But then it isn't a HW revision is it...I mean has any component changed? Or is it just that they released a half baked product and sorted things and released a properly cooked version later. In a sense, us discussing this here on ASR is helping SMSL gain new sales of the same product that should have been this back then! I wonder if other vendors do the same...I'm waiting for D90 V2 then (which won't happen maybe coz it doesn't need to as they did it right first time!)

This probably is where people like myself should realize that SMSL is perhaps a shoddy company and their products cannot be trusted to work best from start! Guess going cheap has its perils!

In the other side you can consider they are able to improve their products.

I started the game with the SMSL SU8 for 200€.

And sold a lot of equipment since this date.

Regarding the price of the different DACs from this brand in front of the measurements, don't you consider they are bargains?

Sanskritt, SU8, M500 etc...

 

[Shoaibexpert]

In the other side you can consider they are able to improve their products.

Off course. This just means that the first commercially available implementations of their high end DACs almost always leaves room for improvement! Congratulations on the right version if the DAC btw...I still do feel that price wise this is the best option out there...will just need to get rid of the old model of the same to buy a new of the same. All courtesy of SMSL!

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Anyways, those upgrading may please share their views if the revision results in audible improvements as well...

 

[renaudrenaud]

I really like the Sabaj D5. Sound quality performances are for me indistinguishable.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Can anyone share their SW version appearing on their PC XMOS USB display along with what the DAC display shows. Do we need to use DFU upgrader anymore...and where and what version XMOS USB Driver is right to be installed on PC....on another forum... @SMSL-Mandy is asking not to upgrade the 2020 M500 stock as it's only upgradable once...