Have you listened to great measuring speakers?

[Colonel7]

In spending time at ASR since the beginning of the year it's occurred to me I've never listened to "top panther" speakers that measure well and are flat along the axis. I was looking forward this year to getting to some shows to listen and get some exposure after not being in the hobby for 25 years but that's obviously not happening. Theres a high end shop near me but who knows whether it'll survive covid-19 and the extended lockdown. Wondering how many of us have and have not heard the Neumanns, the Genelecs, the KEF R3s and some of the Revels nevermind the close-enough new darling ELAC. I've heard way too many B&Ws and the like over the years...

 

[renaudrenaud]

Does the pair of Elac is ok for your criteria, I mean measurements. And is there any specific question?
Excuse me, I do not understand, you juste want a yes or no?
I bought the Elac because of measurements and I wanted to know. Just curious.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Yes, I have listened to Neumann speakers, if that qualifies. And I have also listened to my own speakers - which measure similar on-axis.

If you wanted to know whether they sound the same - they do not. Not even close.

On-axis frequency response is just one of many ways to analyze performance, and it is not that difficult to get right on the paper.

 

[Colonel7]

Appreciate the responses about the differences in similar measuring flat speakers. f course directivity and on-axis off-axis matter etc.

 

[fredoamigo]

the best speakers I've listened to with good on-axis and off-axis measurements ..are the D&D 8C

our memory is generally not very effective on the listening of the past but this one is engraved in marble.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Wondering how many of us have and have not heard the Neumanns, the Genelecs, the KEF R3s and some of the Revels nevermind the close-enough new darling ELAC.

I've heard many of them and they have made me less tolerant of many other speakers.

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Appreciate the responses about the differences in similar measuring flat speakers. f course directivity and on-axis off-axis matter etc.

One aspect of flat and well-behaved off-axis seems to be they are less colored. Such as, many speakers reveal a rather unique character in higher frequencies. Once you are aware of how they sound, every instrument tends to get some of the same timbre, or tonality. Flat speakers don't do that, instruments retain their natural timbre much better.

Then the radiation pattern affects how instruments appear - how solid and clearly rendered they are. Speakers with wide and round pattern present diffuse images, a more precise pattern present more solid and defined images.

 

[Xulonn]

Meadowlark Audio Swifts

Had a pair of those in my office system along with a big Oak Crest replica roll-top desk. Limited bass, but great imaging. Sold them and my living room Apogee Centaurus Monitors in 2012 when I moved to retire in Panama.

 

[Ron Texas]

Many speakers which measure well can measure great with a little EQ so long as their dispersion is even.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I've heard some of them, along with many other "high end" speakers. While the good measuring ones don't sound the same the not great measuring ones have more of an identifiable character. And I sometimes love that character. So the good measuring ones come closer to getting out of the way. I'm a long time user of ESLs. I like them but they do have their own sound. This makes them seem like something special vs Revels which may not wow you as much. Over time that honesty of Revels and similar becomes welcome. Just listen to the music and don't worry about the speakers so much.

 

[fredoamigo]

Just listen to the music and don't worry about the speakers so much

For me, the main advantage of speakers who measure well is that they are not spectacular. I don't know if the analogy is right? but it's like sailing at a good pace on a sailboat on a very flat sea with a constant breeze and no banging.
Listening to classical music is very revealing of this feeling of fullness.
There are also sound recordings that are not of great quality and become almost pleasant to listen to.

Because contrary to the audiophile legend, good loudspeakers that measure well accept all musical genres and are less discriminating with bad sound recordings ...(the most numerous) which does not mean that the differentiation is not made, but it is made much better.

 

[Voo]

great measuring speakers can sound great if you know how to eq them not to be flat

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

I listened to Genelec Ones, Dutch & Dutch 8C, and Kii Three at local dealer for a couple hours. I think biggest sound quality factor is whether you have a dedicated listening room, is it symmetrical enough especially early reflections, and is it big enough for decent bass performance and placement flexibility.

 

[steve59]

I bought the kef R105/3 that was ridiculous measuring +-2db 50-15k and deeper with the optional kube which I bought. I remember reviews raving at the even dispersion 30 deg off axis. Those speakers were BRIGHT. man alive, for all the wonderful measurements because unlike all the other manufacturers that have the huge bump around 100 hz so their speakers will still have output down low, The kef's sounded anemic in comparison and since my wife was 8 months pregnant at the time so I kept them 25 years, but in comparison my VA beethovens which measure like absolute garbage will take me on a magical mystery tour every time I give them a listen.

 

[Ilkless]

I have heard the Neumann KH420 in a treated room. Breathtaking. Bottomless dynamics and extension for my needs. Extremely clear imaging in depth and scale. All layers of the recording easily exposed but of course, not over-emphasised. Any incoherence has to be laid at the feet of the recording, not such a speaker. It's like the big ATC or PMC monitors, except well-engineered. I have also heard the Blade and TAD CR1 in show conditions, with extremely poor dealer setup so I reserve further comment on them.

The KEF R3 and its predecessor R300 were excellent too. LS50 less so. Hazy treble with an obscuring sheen.

Other speakers that impressed me from memory were from Chario, Gradient, Estelon and Lenehan. Not all of these have been measured unfortunately.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yes definitely. The room is extremely important, however.

IME, great speakers will usually sound better than average speakers in any room, but will sound great only in a good room.

 

[cistercian]

Yes definitely. The room is extremely important, however.

IME, great speakers will usually sound better than average speakers in any room, but will sound great only in a good room.

Much is made of hearing through the room and that great speakers will be preferred regardless of room.
I find that this observation is both true and also deceptive...and I say deceptive because I think a great room
is mandatory once one reaches for a certain level of performance. 50K+ for your speakers? Put them in an epic room.

 

[watchnerd]

I've heard some of them, along with many other "high end" speakers. While the good measuring ones don't sound the same the not great measuring ones have more of an identifiable character. And I sometimes love that character. So the good measuring ones come closer to getting out of the way. I'm a long time user of ESLs. I like them but they do have their own sound. This makes them seem like something special vs Revels which may not wow you as much. Over time that honesty of Revels and similar becomes welcome. Just listen to the music and don't worry about the speakers so much.

I worried about the speakers a lot more when I had Martin Logans as my mains.

Yeah, they sounded amazing on acoustic guitars in a way that dynamic radiators just don't do, but orchestral music was limp.

My current Dynaudio Contour 20s are much better all-around, with the "wow" moments coming more from a great recording, as opposed to the speakers themselves.

 

[Hipper]

If you employ lots of bass traps and try and prevent side wall reflections as I do, what difference does the off axis performance of a speaker have?

 

[watchnerd]

Had a pair of those in my office system along with a big Oak Crest replica roll-top desk. Limited bass, but great imaging. Sold them and my living room Apogee Centaurus Monitors in 2012 when I moved to retire in Panama.

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What's up with those weird feet?