I dont like speaker stands. I always think take that money and put it into the speaker case. There it can do something good for speaker performance.
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Have Slim Floorstanding Speakers "Had Their Day?"
- Thread starter MattHooper
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I dont like speaker stands. I always think take that money and put it into the speaker case. There it can do something good for speaker performance.
Adi777
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Because BIG is sexy
That's some serious gear ! Wish I had the funds for that Rotel & think the KEF LS60 are very cool but I've never heard them.
The problem is that most thin profile speakers are mostly compromise. MTMs do really good in a thin design, but now most of these low profile speakers are just doubling up piston area for bass.
If they emphasized mid range detail and transient response thin speakers could carve a nice niche but revealing isn't a thang anymore.
I remember some of the Snell designs In the 90s that took it to the extreme. Some of the most bland speakers I've ever heard
If they emphasized mid range detail and transient response thin speakers could carve a nice niche but revealing isn't a thang anymore.
I remember some of the Snell designs In the 90s that took it to the extreme. Some of the most bland speakers I've ever heard
Let's get real here. At ASR we care very much about measurements and the general sonic impression of speakers. Most people don't. They buy them because they look cool, and some guy in a YouTube video said they're great. And mainly because the wife will let them in the front room. Maybe some hate the sound of crappy speakers, but most people don't seem to know or care. Just making the point that we're an isolated demographic.
DualTriode
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Hello All,
Seems like the tall slim speakers fit spacewise better along side the flat panel TV in the living room.
The mini speakers; 6.5inch Purifi mid-woofers with Beryllium tweeters fit spacewise on my bench. (The sub hides under the bench.)
The favorite speakers; large old school 3-ways with 15 inch woofer, 10 inch midrange and CD/waveguide tweeter are upstairs.
Thanks DT
Seems like the tall slim speakers fit spacewise better along side the flat panel TV in the living room.
The mini speakers; 6.5inch Purifi mid-woofers with Beryllium tweeters fit spacewise on my bench. (The sub hides under the bench.)
The favorite speakers; large old school 3-ways with 15 inch woofer, 10 inch midrange and CD/waveguide tweeter are upstairs.
Thanks DT
i think this mirrors bookshelfs and standmounts largely
the trend... for decades... has been smaller faced speakers but deeper body... i guess you cant readily 'see' the body as it retreats towards the wall?
and so that look pioneered by JBL and the like where you have a shallow body but wide face looks 'old fashioned'
but it tends to promote things like dual 5" woofer slimline towers
so to me i'm in a quandry... do i trust large 8" single woofer towers or dual 5" woofers?
the trend... for decades... has been smaller faced speakers but deeper body... i guess you cant readily 'see' the body as it retreats towards the wall?
and so that look pioneered by JBL and the like where you have a shallow body but wide face looks 'old fashioned'
but it tends to promote things like dual 5" woofer slimline towers
so to me i'm in a quandry... do i trust large 8" single woofer towers or dual 5" woofers?
Some of the best sounding speakers I have heard were the pair of 1961 DuKane Ionovac Duk-30 full range corner towers I owned for about 25 years.Obviously there's a lot more nuance than is implied in my sort of click-baitish title (had to keep it short), but...
The question was partially inspired by my listening to this podcast:
Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER
Darko.Audio podcast: Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER on Apple Podcasts
Show Darko.Audio podcast, Ep Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER - Apr 23, 2023podcasts.apple.com
Where Peter Comeau if AIG talks about designing the larger new Wharfedale Dovedale speakers, and why smaller/slim speakers tend to be a compromise:
Clearly this is yet another speaker in the trendy "bringing back old school big box wider baffle speaker design" trend, at least in the audiophile world. And it's more that trend, than the specific podcast, that I'm thinking of. Though not strictly limited to the old-school designs...really anything on the subject of why bigger/wider speakers may be desirable vs the slimmer speakers.
Of course any manufacturer/designer can come up with an excuse to hop on the "old school box speaker" design trend. (I'm looking at you, Mo-Fi).
But nonetheless, some make the case based on claims like how bigger speakers are easier to design to sound rich and full, how they can get around some of the baffle-step problems that lead many slim speakers to a lack of body/richness/scale etc.
The arguments for jumping out of the slim speaker paradigm is that the goal of trying to make speakers ever more domestically acceptable pushed speaker designers to ever thinner speakers, with smaller drivers, (and lower sensitivity) which tend to compromise sound for looks.
Personally, I caught the narrow floorstanding speaker "bug" when I heard Audio Physic Virgo speakers in the 90's, and later owned several Audio Physic models. I really loved the way they did not take up much visual space and "disappeared" as apparent sources of the sound, with a big airy soundstage etc.
On the other hand I've also come to appreciate a bigger, beefier sound from some of the more old-school wider-baffle/bigger driver designs. So...I like both.
At the moment I'm using Joseph Perspective floor standing speakers, the very definition of "small, domestically acceptable slim floor standing speaker," which tries to pack a big sound in a smallish speaker. I went back and forth between these and some of the bigger more old school designs. The wider speakers didn't ultimately suit the needs of my room, and I have to say I still quite enjoy the sort of magic act of sitting between widely spaced slim speakers that take up so little visual space yet seem to conjure up a vast soundscape.
What are your thoughts? Did you ever like any slim floor standing speakers? Are you "over them" and happy to go with beefier looking (sounding?) speakers that don't put a slim profile as a premium? And of course any arguments against the 'slim floor standing speakers are compromised' are welcome. (For instance, the new KEF LS60 has been very well received).
I got them in new, unused condition from an engineer I worked with in return for helping him paint his house. He had evidently gotten them from some warehouse where they had been stored for decades unsold in factory new condition. Complete with original documents.
These had 12 inch woofers but were remarkably slim and compact due to the triangular cabinet design.
They were truly high fidelity speakers from when that wasn't a marketing blurb.
They didn't need a subwoofer because they had good response down to 30 Hz
Efficiency was good and impedance wasn't too low so I drove them with a modest 15 watt per channel direct coupled solid state amp so as not to damage them
They were efficient enough that this could still get a visit from law enforcement if an enthusiastic party guest turned them up.
Attachments
BTW, had anyone tried the latest ribbon towers from Newform Research?
I think WAF is likely questionable because of the stands, but the sound should be exceptional. The WAF could be improved by engaging the W in improvising a less alien looking design for the mounting.
I have owned ribbons before and was pleased with them, but these are full range to the extent that the crossover is about 1kHz.
These use 6 Purifi 4 inch midbass woofers in a VERY slim line array to control vertical dispersion. The ribbons are a line array of three 15 inch nearly full range units.
Attachments
If drivers are driven below baffle-step, there is a fortune for allover SPL.
If mid/woofer runs into baffle step, this must be corrected by x-over by suppression (or level up all other frequencies, you might do with DSP; would you?) and this lowers SPL over all.
Moreover, the driver changes dispersion mode from omnidirectional to bidirectional (that's the so called baffle step), so dispersion into the room also is altered.
This may be the probably explanation that Joachim Gerhard (former chief of audio physics) recommends the speakers axis should be aligned towards where your feet rest).
But beside baffle step and retro design, I still well remember the first encounters with audio physic's loudspeakers, that sounded so much clearer and esp. spacier than all the other high priced national and international ones.
If mid/woofer runs into baffle step, this must be corrected by x-over by suppression (or level up all other frequencies, you might do with DSP; would you?) and this lowers SPL over all.
Moreover, the driver changes dispersion mode from omnidirectional to bidirectional (that's the so called baffle step), so dispersion into the room also is altered.
This may be the probably explanation that Joachim Gerhard (former chief of audio physics) recommends the speakers axis should be aligned towards where your feet rest).
But beside baffle step and retro design, I still well remember the first encounters with audio physic's loudspeakers, that sounded so much clearer and esp. spacier than all the other high priced national and international ones.
How slim is "slim"? It seems to me something like the KEF LS60 belies the assumption in the title of the thread. And it's not like some of the highest touted speakers within these forums are large... Genelec, D&D, Neumann, etc.
Moreover, the ability to now optimize the interaction between main speakers and a sub (or two) also means that -at least IMO- what may be an endangered species are large full-range speakers. Years ago, I spent significant $ on large towers, but when I moved to a smaller place, they would not work at all.
Moreover, the ability to now optimize the interaction between main speakers and a sub (or two) also means that -at least IMO- what may be an endangered species are large full-range speakers. Years ago, I spent significant $ on large towers, but when I moved to a smaller place, they would not work at all.
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@MattHooper how do you think this stuff up?
Here in Texas everything is bigger..... The Canadians say something like that.
This largish speaker measures very well:
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/wharfedale_linton_85/
Here in Texas everything is bigger..... The Canadians say something like that.
This largish speaker measures very well:
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/wharfedale_linton_85/
OP
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- Thread Starter
- #74
Yes, a common saying is, "Everything is bigger in Texas." It applies to everything from steaks, potatoes, hamburgers, big trucks and all sorts of interesting stuff.
Bugs! Trust me, if you ever see a tarantula hawk... RUN!Yes, a common saying is, "Everything is bigger in Texas." It applies to everything from steaks, potatoes, hamburgers, big trucks and all sorts of interesting stuff.
Yeah. I stepped on one while visiting friends in Austin. I consider myself very pain resistant, but omg that was unimaginably nasty. I was also lucky enough to step on a stonefish many years ago. The good thing about a stonefish is that you *will* pass out (and in some cases you will not wake up...). No such luck with a tarantula hawk sting - you'll spent 10 minutes screaming every extreme, blasphemous expletive you have ever learned.
anome
Member
Big trucks with big loads, I think pretty much anything pales in comparison to an encounter with an Aussie RoadTrain, even a close encounter with a logging truck on a logging road in Haida Gwaii, they haul some pretty large toothpicks out of those backwoods.
Obviously there's a lot more nuance than is implied in my sort of click-baitish title (had to keep it short), but...
The question was partially inspired by my listening to this podcast:
Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER
Darko.Audio podcast: Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER on Apple Podcasts
Show Darko.Audio podcast, Ep Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER - Apr 23, 2023podcasts.apple.com
Where Peter Comeau if AIG talks about designing the larger new Wharfedale Dovedale speakers, and why smaller/slim speakers tend to be a compromise:
Clearly this is yet another speaker in the trendy "bringing back old school big box wider baffle speaker design" trend, at least in the audiophile world. And it's more that trend, than the specific podcast, that I'm thinking of. Though not strictly limited to the old-school designs...really anything on the subject of why bigger/wider speakers may be desirable vs the slimmer speakers.
Of course any manufacturer/designer can come up with an excuse to hop on the "old school box speaker" design trend. (I'm looking at you, Mo-Fi).
But nonetheless, some make the case based on claims like how bigger speakers are easier to design to sound rich and full, how they can get around some of the baffle-step problems that lead many slim speakers to a lack of body/richness/scale etc.
The arguments for jumping out of the slim speaker paradigm is that the goal of trying to make speakers ever more domestically acceptable pushed speaker designers to ever thinner speakers, with smaller drivers, (and lower sensitivity) which tend to compromise sound for looks.
Personally, I caught the narrow floorstanding speaker "bug" when I heard Audio Physic Virgo speakers in the 90's, and later owned several Audio Physic models. I really loved the way they did not take up much visual space and "disappeared" as apparent sources of the sound, with a big airy soundstage etc.
On the other hand I've also come to appreciate a bigger, beefier sound from some of the more old-school wider-baffle/bigger driver designs. So...I like both.
At the moment I'm using Joseph Perspective floor standing speakers, the very definition of "small, domestically acceptable slim floor standing speaker," which tries to pack a big sound in a smallish speaker. I went back and forth between these and some of the bigger more old school designs. The wider speakers didn't ultimately suit the needs of my room, and I have to say I still quite enjoy the sort of magic act of sitting between widely spaced slim speakers that take up so little visual space yet seem to conjure up a vast soundscape.
What are your thoughts? Did you ever like any slim floor standing speakers? Are you "over them" and happy to go with beefier looking (sounding?) speakers that don't put a slim profile as a premium? And of course any arguments against the 'slim floor standing speakers are compromised' are welcome. (For instance, the new KEF LS60 has been very well received).
I think an important issue is the direction of marketing and the market itself, in addition of course to things like room decor and home dimensions. Besides, there are some really compact quality subwoofers from makers like KEF.Obviously there's a lot more nuance than is implied in my sort of click-baitish title (had to keep it short), but...
The question was partially inspired by my listening to this podcast:
Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER
Darko.Audio podcast: Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER on Apple Podcasts
Show Darko.Audio podcast, Ep Why BIGGER loudspeakers are BETTER - Apr 23, 2023podcasts.apple.com
Where Peter Comeau if AIG talks about designing the larger new Wharfedale Dovedale speakers, and why smaller/slim speakers tend to be a compromise:
Clearly this is yet another speaker in the trendy "bringing back old school big box wider baffle speaker design" trend, at least in the audiophile world. And it's more that trend, than the specific podcast, that I'm thinking of. Though not strictly limited to the old-school designs...really anything on the subject of why bigger/wider speakers may be desirable vs the slimmer speakers.
Of course any manufacturer/designer can come up with an excuse to hop on the "old school box speaker" design trend. (I'm looking at you, Mo-Fi).
But nonetheless, some make the case based on claims like how bigger speakers are easier to design to sound rich and full, how they can get around some of the baffle-step problems that lead many slim speakers to a lack of body/richness/scale etc.
The arguments for jumping out of the slim speaker paradigm is that the goal of trying to make speakers ever more domestically acceptable pushed speaker designers to ever thinner speakers, with smaller drivers, (and lower sensitivity) which tend to compromise sound for looks.
Personally, I caught the narrow floorstanding speaker "bug" when I heard Audio Physic Virgo speakers in the 90's, and later owned several Audio Physic models. I really loved the way they did not take up much visual space and "disappeared" as apparent sources of the sound, with a big airy soundstage etc.
On the other hand I've also come to appreciate a bigger, beefier sound from some of the more old-school wider-baffle/bigger driver designs. So...I like both.
At the moment I'm using Joseph Perspective floor standing speakers, the very definition of "small, domestically acceptable slim floor standing speaker," which tries to pack a big sound in a smallish speaker. I went back and forth between these and some of the bigger more old school designs. The wider speakers didn't ultimately suit the needs of my room, and I have to say I still quite enjoy the sort of magic act of sitting between widely spaced slim speakers that take up so little visual space yet seem to conjure up a vast soundscape.
What are your thoughts? Did you ever like any slim floor standing speakers? Are you "over them" and happy to go with beefier looking (sounding?) speakers that don't put a slim profile as a premium? And of course any arguments against the 'slim floor standing speakers are compromised' are welcome. (For instance, the new KEF LS60 has been very well received).
I think a key influence can be summarized by my experience in a big box stereo store in 1980.
I had gone to help a coworker and friend select a car stereo as a birthday gift for her husband who had just bought a new car.
While waiting, I was listening to an enthusiastic young salesman discussing a wall mounted turntable with a young woman who was obviously not an audiophile, but was looking for a gift for her husband.
The salesman was attempting to extol the technical superiority of the product by explaining that "Bass is a horizontal frequency."
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