Have active monitors overtaken HiFi speakers as preferred listening setups?

[infinitesymphony]

I assume 90% of people watching movies are listening to a 2.0 stereo downmix either provided by the studio or happening live in-the-box by the playback software. If you have a nice set of speakers, IMO you really don't miss out on much unless you're shooting for a pure theater experience.

 

[q3cpma]

If you're wondering about the KH120A, I made a thread while trying to choose between it and the corresponding Genelec model where some useful (hard and soft) data was gathered: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120a-or-genelec-8030c.11109/
I suggest you sift through the last 3~5 thread pages from the speaker forum, since questions about speaker advice/guidance are often asked here.

 

[infinitesymphony]

If you're wondering about the KH120A, I made a thread while trying to choose between it and the corresponding Genelec model where some useful (hard and soft) data was gathered: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120a-or-genelec-8030c.11109/
I suggest you sift through the last 3~5 thread pages from the speaker forum, since questions about speaker advice/guidance are often asked here.

Definitely looking forward to seeing some Genelecs tested, especially the 80x0 series as they've been around for quite a while. Spent some time in a broadcast truck listening to a 5.1 8030 + sub setup and it sounded really good in a tight space.

 

[LTig]

Amir has not tested the KH 120 yet, so its characteristics are probably not well-known among the ASR community unless someone passes through who has familiarity with the data Neumann or other testers have published. Personally I do not know enough about how to read these results yet to arrive at my own conclusions about directivity.


Someone with familiarity with Neumann's DSP will have to chime in here. I would hazard a guess that each speaker needs to contain its own DSP because the correction for each speaker will be slightly different.

KH80 DSP currently is the only Neumann speaker with DSP crossover. All other (bigger) models use analog crossovers and analog correction features (dip swiches).

 

[LTig]

Basically thread title. I was asking around for recommendations for a small living room, 4m x 4m, and I was recommended neumann or genelec. In the reviews, if I'm not mistaken I see active monitors scoring highly. I was at the start kind of set on getting the passive ls50, there was a good deal at them locally for 850 usd, but now I'm looking at the kh 80 dsp, the kh 120 and the jbl 305 mk ii. Are active monitors the way to go from here?

Yes, active is the future. Well, in the pro market (studio) active is the present since may years and passive is the past. It starts to trickle down into hifi equipment but very slowly.

When should I rather have a HiFi setup?

If you want to burn money? Want to keep your integrated amp which has no preamp output? Want to play with speaker cables?

Well, I got active monitors in 2004 and have since then replaced all passive speakers by actives everywhere (even for my E-drum). The relation of SQ to price is unbeatable in my view, so why should I pay more to get less SQ?

 

[LTig]

I read that the kh 80 dsp is a bit clearer than the kh 120, but was hoping that if I get their dsp sub and pair the dsp with the kh 120, that the sound would improve.

Any reason I should choose the kh 80 over the 120 or vice versa?

It depends on the max SPL you want to listen to. If in doubt chose the KH120. Read the FAQs on Neumanns Homepage. There is also a lot of useful information on Genelecs Homepage, and it's not necessarily related to Genelec speakers.

 

[infinitesymphony]

KH80 DSP currently is the only Neumann speaker with DSP crossover. All other (bigger) models use analog crossovers and analog correction features (dip swiches).

The Neumann KH 750 DSP subwoofer has this feature. cleareyes's question is, if he gets this subwoofer, do the other speakers need to have DSP as well in order to receive correction, or can the sub's DSP be individually applied to its outputs regardless of the connected speakers? I would guess that all speakers do need built-in DSP in order to store this correction data locally.

Edit: Thankfully this is not the case (see further posts); the KH 750 can apply EQ to many other Neumann non-DSP monitors.

 

[LTig]

The Neumann KH 750 DSP subwoofer has this feature. cleareyes's question is, if he gets this subwoofer, do the other speakers need to have DSP as well in order to receive correction, or can the sub's DSP be individually applied to its outputs regardless of the connected speakers?

I see. Don't know this.

I would guess that all speakers do need built-in DSP in order to store this correction data locally.

In the link you've posted above it's written "The perfect complement to KH 80 DSP, KH 120 and KH 310". Whatever this means.

 

[cleareyes]

If you're wondering about the KH120A, I made a thread while trying to choose between it and the corresponding Genelec model where some useful (hard and soft) data was gathered: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh120a-or-genelec-8030c.11109/
I suggest you sift through the last 3~5 thread pages from the speaker forum, since questions about speaker advice/guidance are often asked here.

Which one did you end up buying? I haven't really had a chance to try out the genelecs, so I'm probably going with the neumanns

 

[cleareyes]

Yes, active is the future. Well, in the pro market (studio) active is the present since may years and passive is the past. It starts to trickle down into hifi equipment but very slowly.

If you want to burn money? Want to keep your integrated amp which has no preamp output? Want to play with speaker cables?

Well, I got active monitors in 2004 and have since then replaced all passive speakers by actives everywhere (even for my E-drum). The relation of SQ to price is unbeatable in my view, so why should I pay more to get less SQ?

You could say that this is why we're all here, because we seemlingly care more about objectivity than established traditions and reputations.

 

[A800]

No.
The Fane 12-250TC still rules here.
And most likely will forever.

 

[cleareyes]

I asked customer service about adding dsp functionality to the 120 through addition of the 750.

This was the response:

Med KH 750 så kan du tilføre DSP kontroll til alle analoge høyttalere også, så med den i oppsettet vil du uansett få gode romkorrigeringsmuligheter.

Translation:

The KH 750 adds DSP functionality to all analogue speakers as well, giving you room correction functionality.


I was able to listen to the kh 80 dsp today. I enjoyed the sound, but I'd require a sub I think. It sounded a bit flat, lacking or dull.
The store is getting some kh 120 so I'm looking forward to listening to those.

One thing I was missing though. A month ago or so, I was able to listen to a pair of KEF Blades. It was basically the prestige room of the shop, with all their most expensive gear. What I particularly liked, was that it felt like I was bathing in sound, or being hit and overwhelmed with a tidal wave of sound. With the kh 80 dsp today, it mostly felt like listening to headphones without headphones, although not quite as intimate. Will I be able to take a sonic bath with studio monitors or is this just a consequence of them being too small?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

The Neumann KH 750 DSP subwoofer has this feature. cleareyes's question is, if he gets this subwoofer, do the other speakers need to have DSP as well in order to receive correction, or can the sub's DSP be individually applied to its outputs regardless of the connected speakers? I would guess that all speakers do need built-in DSP in order to store this correction data locally.

I have the KH 310 and bought a KH 750 DSP last week. The subwoofer acts as a DSP for the whole system. If you use the iPad-app, you can specify which Neumann-speakers are connected. It supports KH80, 120, 310 and 420. I can set 8 fully parametric EQs (or other filter like hs, ls) for EACH of the three speaker (L, R, Sub) individually, if i want. I also can use the iPad as a remote volume control of the whole system. I can switch sub on and off via iPad and so on. The KH 750 even adds FIR linear phase filtering to the analogue mains. As far as i know it works the same if you combine KH80 or 120 to the 750.
I´m not sure if KH120 will have any advantages over KH80 if combined with the KH750. If you buy the KH80 you have all the DSP/App-features without the sub, if you don´t want it.
Info and screenshots from Neumann here: https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-750-dsp

Here is a review and measurements of the KH120: https://en-de.neumann.com/product_files/1711/download

 

[cleareyes]

I have the KH 310 and bought a KH 750 DSP last week. The subwoofer acts as a DSP for the whole system. If you use the iPad-app, you can specify which Neumann-speakers are connected. It supports KH80, 120, 310 and 420. I can set 8 fully parametric EQs (or other filter like hs, ls) for EACH of the three speaker (L, R, Sub) individually, if i want. I also can use the iPad as a remote volume control of the whole system. I can switch sub on and off via iPad and so on. The KH 750 even adds FIR linear phase filtering to the analogue mains. As far as i know it works the same if you combine KH80 or 120 to the 750.
I´m not sure if KH120 will have any advantages over KH80 if combined with the KH750. If you buy the KH80 you have all the DSP/App-features without the sub, if you don´t want it.
Info and screenshots from Neumann here: https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-750-dsp

Here is a review and measurements of the KH120: https://en-de.neumann.com/product_files/1711/download

Thanks for confirming the dsp functionality

 

[DJBonoBobo]

You´re welcome. It is a really good package, i think.
Only one small disappointment: You can´t change the crossover frequency yet. It´s planned for "one of the next" versions of the app, but it´s not yet available.

 

[q3cpma]

One thing I was missing though. A month ago or so, I was able to listen to a pair of KEF Blades. It was basically the prestige room of the shop, with all their most expensive gear. What I particularly liked, was that it felt like I was bathing in sound, or being hit and overwhelmed with a tidal wave of sound. With the kh 80 dsp today, it mostly felt like listening to headphones without headphones, although not quite as intimate. Will I be able to take a sonic bath with studio monitors or is this just a consequence of them being too small?

Being small doesn't help, but the main point is that it's designed for nearfield use with a narrow directivity. Genelec has a wider directivity, so it could be better for you.

Which one did you end up buying? I haven't really had a chance to try out the genelecs, so I'm probably going with the neumanns

Didn't buy any for now, but I've decided I'll take a pair of 8030C with their cool table stands in May.

 

[Billy Budapest]

This is going to sound like heresy, but for beginners that are looking purely for streaming for a near-field desk setup, I recommend a pair of Apple HomePods set up in stereo configuration. It’s not just the simplicity of it—rather, they do sound very good, especially in a near-field application. Then, when you get more into the hobby and want to upgrade, you can repurpose the HomePods and use them as streamers in the kitchen, etc. I’ve been a music fan and gear head for over 30 years (notice I didn’t say “audiophile” as I hate that word) and when people of my vintage ask me for suggestions to buy a “stereo,” this is what I tell them. Not because it’s easy, not because it works, but because it’s good.

 

[dshreter]

I'd love to see a HomePod on the Klippel.

 

[RayDunzl]

I'd love to see a HomePod on the Klippel.

Wouldn't it first adjust itself to the environment?

How would the measurements compare to a more confined location, where it would more likely be put to use?

 

[Billy Budapest]

I'd love to see a HomePod on the Klippel.

It’s been measured by members here (not on the Klippel though) and did pretty well!

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/apple-homepod-measurement.8425/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...orama-measurements-of-the-apple-homepod.7417/