Has DSP turned us into audio neurotics? [rant]

[mhardy6647]

I even have a small beach 50 meters from the building where I live here in the north of Sweden. We have the midnight sun, so when it's up the longest it is daylight 23 hours a day. Usually, it's around 20-25 degrees, and sometimes even up to 30C.

Yes, and this is precisely why I am a wee bit bitter that circumstances never put me anywhere in Sweden at the (summer) solstice. I was typically there in the early spring and late fall, when the weather wasn't too different than it was at home (in Massachusetts)!
I always enjoyed my trips there, even though they were mostly business.

 

[Sal1950]

Or to put it more precisely , the individual musical choices including engineering and production choices that gave each artist their sound, it all translated quite well through neutral and non-neutral gear.

How does that justify the further distortion of an already flawed recording ??
For 100 years the science of High Fidelity has been to reduce the distortion of our gear, both on the recording side and the reproduction end.
Your fully entitled to discard their work and purse your own path but that's 180 degrees from the Science of Reproduction.

 

[UprightCitizen]

At the beach... dude. Sweden.


I have,in full disclosure, been to Sweden numerous times, but 1) only Stockholm and environs and 2) never in the summertime. Can you tell that I'm a bit bitter on that latter point?
I am sure that there are beaches in Sweden and they may even be survivable in good weather. So... yeah... maybe. But the juxtaposition of Scandinavia and hanging out at the beach just struck me as wry.

I can assure you there are beaches in sweden, and Swedes live to go to lakes or archepelago cliffs etc after a long and dark winter Swedish summer weather is unpredictable, but it can be really warm and sunny.

Öland:

 

[Sal1950]

I can assure you there are beaches in sweden, and Swedes live to go to lakes or archepelago cliffs etc after a long and dark winter Swedish summer weather is unpredictable, but it can be really warm and sunny.

Öland:

Unpredictable would be a good way to describe it. LOL
I do wish y'all well.

 

[UprightCitizen]

Unpredictable would be a good way to describe it. LOL
I do wish y'all well.

Well, what can I tell you

 

[Leporello]

Here's the thing - that music wasn't intended to be reproduced "accurately".

Then on the other hand it was not meant to be reproduced according to the listener's personal taste. If it were, why would Spector have bothered to be so particular about the sound?

 

[DLS79]

The Circle Of Confusion says “Hi.”

So only those with a 20hz to 20k playback system, fully room corrected, really care about “ The original work of the artist” whereas music fans and musicians down the ages didn’t really care about the work of the musical artist?

I don’t think you really want to go down that slippery slope.

I think that's a little much.

There's a difference between being technologically or financially limited, and intentionally choosing a piece of equipment that will noticeably alter the sound of production.

 

[Robin L]

Then on the other hand it was not meant to be reproduced according to the listener's personal taste. If it were, why would Spector have bothered to be so particular about the sound?

Because he wanted it to shine on AM radio, a format where the limitations would counteract the flaws of his recording technique.
Also, Phil was a well-known asshole of the first degree.

 

[mhardy6647]

Also, Phil was a well-known asshole of the first degree.

... and then there was also that murderer thing.

 

[Sal1950]

... and then there was also that murderer thing.

He was "Just An Excitable Boy."

Remember, But For The Grace of God, There Go I !!!

 

[Leporello]

Because he wanted it to shine on AM radio, a format where the limitations would counteract the flaws of his recording technique.

I wonder where this information is from? Did Spector actually make a statement like this? Did he specifically say that he wants his sound reproduced according to the listeners´ personal taste?

 

[Timcognito]

Not to say that there were not any great recordings in the early to mid 60s but all pop music was geared towards AM Top 40 radio and 45 rpm singles. The good playback equipment was collected by real nerdy audiophiles who played Classical and Jazz LPs and was called HiFi, with stereo broadcast a relatively new innovation.

 

[Robin L]

... and then there was also that murderer thing.

I know most people think of the film "Easy Rider" as some sort of embrace of hippie culture, but the moment those two hustlers sell Phil Spector a wad of coke we should all know they are doomed. More like a Greek Tragedy than anything else.

 

[Robin L]

I wonder where this information is from? Did Spector actually make a statement like this? Did he specifically say that he wants his sound reproduced according to the listeners´ personal taste?

Didn't need to. The whole point was to make hits and at the time the way to do that was via Top 40 radio.

 

[MattHooper]

I think that's a little much.

There's a difference between being technologically or financially limited, and intentionally choosing a piece of equipment that will noticeably alter the sound of production.

But my point was that countless music lovers have been deeply passionate about their love for music, their adoration for certain artists, including many who pay keen attention to all the elements of the recordings.

They didn’t need to choose ASR level accurate equipment in order to do that.

Nor does somebody here or elsewhere in the audio hobby who happens to choose an audio system that has some level of colouration. Then you get into “ how perfectly accurate does your system have to be so that you pass the purity test of caring about the artist’s work?”

Does my choice of using tube amps mean I care less than others here about the work of the artist and the various elements involved?

It’s a glass house sliding down a slippery slope….

 

[Sal1950]

I know most people think of the film "Easy Rider" as some sort of embrace of hippie culture, but the moment those two hustlers sell Phil Spector a wad of coke we should all know they are doomed. More like a Greek Tragedy than anything else.

It was simply a bunch of Hollyweird fantasy & fiction BS. LOL

But my point was that countless music lovers have been deeply passionate about their love for music, their adoration for certain artists, including many who pay keen attention to all the elements of the recordings.

And it was our love of that music while growing up that lead many of us to High Fidelity gear in an effort to hear that music as clearly as possible. First it was 45s, then LPs and then Digital sources that gave us the clearest view of what was on those old master tapes. From the Sun recordings to Phil's "Wall Of Sound", Barry Gordy's great Motown labels, along with all the great Quad mixes of the 70s now being once more released in fantastic sounding digital mixes.

Nor does somebody here or elsewhere in the audio hobby who happens to choose an audio system that has some level of colouration. Then you get into “ how perfectly accurate does your system have to be so that you pass the purity test of caring about the artist’s work?”

Does my choice of using tube amps mean I care less than others here about the work of the artist and the various elements involved?

It does mean you care less than a High Fidelity passion driven person who cares about hearing exactly what is on that recording as accurately as possible.
If a bunch of added distortion makes you happy, thats fine with me, but I'm just calling things the way they are.
Whether rock, blues, jazz, classical, whatever, my goal is the same it's been for 60 years, to improve the quality of the sound my system is capable of. To hear further into the detail of the music that I love so much. Thank goodness for all the progress we've made over that time.

 

[Robin L]

It was simply a bunch of Hollyweird fantasy & fiction BS. LOL

It was more than that. It undermined the usual Hollyweird game by being written and produced more like a European film. It also was the film that jump-started Jack Nicholson's career. I think it was misunderstood in its own time while being much more successful than anyone would have anticipated. Because of it there were a lot of films made soon thereafter that got away from the usual Hollywood formulas into a more personal sort of film making. But when Jaws and Star Wars emerged, that sort of film making mostly came to an end until Indy film makers emerged much later.

 

[Sal1950]

It was more than that. It undermined the usual Hollyweird game by being written and produced more like a European film.

??? If you say so, I know nothing about movie production, only if I liked them or not. And my taste seems to run counter to the masses. LOL

 

[Robin L]

??? If you say so, I know nothing about movie production, only if I liked them or not. And my taste seems to run counter to the masses. LOL

A lot of hand-held camera work, a very low budget, lots of improvised dialog - it was a million miles away from Doris Day/Rock Hudson comedies or heavily scripted dramas with big ticket Stars and big budgets.

 

[Leporello]

Didn't need to. The whole point was to make hits and at the time the way to do that was via Top 40 radio.

But your earlier post seemed to be saying that the motivation behind Spector's famous sound was to hide his bad recording technique. Is this entirely your own interpretation or do I understand your post incorrectly?

Recording and reproduction techniques may impose various limitations of course but it does not necessarily follow from this that the creators were not intentional about the sound.