Has anyone used manual parametric equalization for room correction?

[2Sunny]

As is typical for me I'm putting the proverbial cart before the horse here, but none the less what has got my attention recently whilst learning how to take good readings from REW is the issue of room correction. My simplistic understanding is that the ultimate goal would be to have the room curve come as close as possible to the Harman room curve, but typically one finds nulls or spikes in certain frequencies, BUT I also see how PEQ can handle such nulls and spikes better than old fashioned simple EQ's. I'm also assuming that it may even be possible using PEQ to room correct better than DIRAC, but really that's a whole other discussion. Anyways, the questions at the moment are:

1) Has anyone used Yamaha's PEQs to room correct?
2) Are there any other AVR's that offer PEQ?
3) Have folks tried using PEQ for room correction and not been happy with the results?

 

[2Sunny]

Just now searching on the internet I think I'm reading that miniDSP offers PEQ so this brings up a new question:

Could I connect a miniDSP to my Sony and get the same effect?

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I’ve used the manual 10 band PEQ on a WiiM Ultra for speakers and 3 band PEQ on two SVS 3000 micros. I used Magic Beans to do the measurements and exported two PEQs.

Also used Magic Beans and MultEQX on my Marantz AVR and I was extremely pleased with the results.

 

[GXAlan]

Yamaha PEQ is fine, because if you are using the AVRs, they are mixing their FIR filters either the PEQ as opposed to a simple PEQ like the WiiM Ultra.

You should use the web interface which is ipaddress/setup if I recall correctly. It’s a lot more effort since the Yamaha PEQ makes you choose different options instead of having individual frequency and Q, but it will work great to correct your audio.

 

[2Sunny]

Looks like Emotiva makes an AVR with PEQ also.

BasX MR1 11.2 Channel Dolby Atmos® & DTS:X™ Cinema Receiver

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emotiva.com

 

[boxerfan88]

1) Has anyone used Yamaha's PEQs to room correct?

Yes I do. I room correct with manual PEQ on my existing Yamaha RXA3030 AVR (it’s a very old model yet reliable).

The limitation is that the Freq & Q parameters are at fixed points, not full PEQ where you can input whatever you want.

This is how my Yamaha AVR config page looks like.

2) Are there any other AVR's that offer PEQ?

There are other brands but I am not familiar with them.

3) Have folks tried using PEQ for room correction and not been happy with the results?

I have been happy with manual PEQ results, I managed to make it sound better than the automated YPAO.

 

[Palmer]

I still have the Elemental Designs eQ.2 driving my (sadly mono) subs, but this little box has served me well over 10 years or so and I am still sad the company went under.

 

[GXAlan]

Remember, Yamaha YPAO has many versions. The 64-bit precision with RSC is pretty good.

Step-by-Step Guide to Manual PEQ Edits with Yamaha YPAO

taken from simplehomecinema

—-
Here’s a straightforward approach to manually adjusting PEQ filters for optimal sound:

1. Copy YPAO’s Results to a Manual Slot
   This retains YPAO’s R.S.C. filters (Reflected Sound Control), which manage sound reflections but allow you to manually edit the frequency response balance.
2. Measure Room Response Using REW
   Position your microphone at the primary listening position and measure speaker response. YPAO is excellent at overall balancing, but it misses detailed room modes, most common in bass frequencies.
3. Design Filters in REW
   Once REW reveals problematic frequencies, use the EQ filter function to generate manual EQ points. REW will suggest boosts, cuts, and Q values based on your measurements.
4. Enter PEQ Settings into Yamaha AVR
   Plug those settings into your Yamaha’s manual PEQ slot.
5. Re-Measure and Fine-Tune
   Re-measure with REW to verify changes, tweak the filters further, and repeat until your room response is as smooth as possible.

——

The RSC component is what makes Yamaha’s PEQ different from WiiM’s or Emotiva’s (or Acurus).

Yamaha YPAO and YPAO R.S.C. - Simple Home Cinema

- Yamaha YPAO and YPAO R.S.C.

simplehomecinema.com

 

[Chrispy]

Just now searching on the internet I think I'm reading that miniDSP offers PEQ so this brings up a new question:

Could I connect a miniDSP to my Sony and get the same effect?

Your Sony just doesn't have the ability to incorporate external processors/eq. As far as Yamaha goes believe they are one of the few offering peq option....Denon/Marantz is only geq.

 

[Rednaxela]

1) Has anyone used Yamaha's PEQs to room correct?

I haven't but I've researched this quite fanatically some 10 years ago. Back then the fact that you couldn't freely choose F made it basically impossible to target room modes. The PEQ function in your screenshot seems to have the same limitation, so I'd rather see it as an advanced tonality control instead of DRC. Powerful, but just lacking the control for what I feel is the most important part of the latter.

2) Are there any other AVR's that offer PEQ?

Here is a Pioneer example. See page 101. Not easy to distill the full functionality and its limitations from the manual, but here it looks like the PEQ part is reserved for the below Schroeder area (Standing Waves), while the remainder is offered as a GEQ. Happy to stand corrected, but if this is the case indeed, I'd say for manual DRC this system is more suited than Yamaha's.

3) Have folks tried using PEQ for room correction and not been happy with the results?

I use a DEQ2496 digital in/out for DRC - both PEQ and DEQ. So far I have been very happy with the results. Compared to other 'upgrades' it was cheap in terms of €/£/$ but by far the most expensive in terms of time and energy. The REW target curve fitting function is highly configurable, and in principle you can make it optimize your GEQ settings too by setting it up as an equivalent PEQ and telling it to only adjust gains. A feature I would certainly explore with Yamaha/Pioneer style manual EQ systems.

Hope this helps.

 

[peng]

Yamaha PEQ is fine, because if you are using the AVRs, they are mixing their FIR filters either the PEQ as opposed to a simple PEQ like the WiiM Ultra.

You should use the web interface which is ipaddress/setup if I recall correctly. It’s a lot more effort since the Yamaha PEQ makes you choose different options instead of having individual frequency and Q, but it will work great to correct your audio.

Last time I checked, in terms of filters use, Yamaha AVRs used IIR, not FIR. Things could/might have changed though but I am not aware of any as such.
For the OP, assuming YPAO is still IIR based, it would be just a case of, as he alluded to, mixing auto RC/EQ with manual PEQs, it should work well.

 

[wwenze]

I used to do manual. And then I got lazy.

 

[peng]

Just now searching on the internet I think I'm reading that miniDSP offers PEQ so this brings up a new question:

Could I connect a miniDSP to my Sony and get the same effect?

Assuming your Sony has pre outs, you can use one of the miniDSP devices with external power amps. In my opinion/experience, that is not a good solution but it can work.

 

[Rednaxela]

Last time I checked, in terms of filters use, Yamaha AVRs used IIR, not FIR.

Please see the article that @GXAlan provides in post #8.

In there it says:

YPAO R.S.C (R.S.C. stands for Reflected Sound Control) is more advanced. It actually has TWO sets of filters:

1. It will measure the impulse response of the main speakers (not the subwoofer even if the model has sub EQ) AND will create filters that will modulate BOTH the phase and the frequency of the response. This is to allow for removing the first reflection of the speakers in the room and it allows YPAO to tackle both the dips and the peaks in the frequency response. YPAO basic will only be able to tackle the peaks effectively and do a hit or miss with the dips. This is true of any type of parametric EQ. These filters are not actually displayed on the screen and are not editable.
2. The second set of filters are only in the frequency-domain with a minimum phase: these are the PEQ filters that are used in the YPAO basic equalisation. But here, more broad filters can be used since the main / most difficult issues in frequency response have been corrected.

 

[peng]

Please see the article that @GXAlan provides in post #8.

In there it says:

Thanks, but of course I read his post and gave it a "like" already, but what has it got to do with my point that as far as I knew, Yamaha AVR uses IIR filters, not FIR filters. I also did say that things might have changed, though I doubt that.

There are other AVRs/AVPs that use FIR filters and that include Audyssey and Dirac Live (DL uses both IIR and FIR).

 

[Rednaxela]

[...] what has it got to do with my point that as far as I knew, Yamaha AVR uses IIR filters, not FIR filters.

Are you saying that the bit I highlighted is implemented using IIR only?

 

[OCA]

REW has a "configurable PEQ" under "Generic" which you can fully customize for your particular model's bandwith, gain, number of banks, etc. PEQ settings and then REW's auto EQ will generate the optimal PEQ settings for the target curve of your choice:

 

[2Sunny]

REW has a "configurable PEQ" under "Generic" which you can fully customize for your particular model's bandwith, gain, number of banks, etc. PEQ settings and then REW's auto EQ will generate the optimal PEQ settings for the target curve of your choice:

View attachment 442667

I'm just beginning to scratch the surface of how powerful REW is in helping improve ones audio system. Thanks for showing me that!

 

[peng]

Are you saying that the bit I highlighted is implemented using IIR only?

I can't say for sure as I don't have the latest information but I would say most likely yes, based on info I read before, that was quite a while ago and it could be hard to find the source on the web easily. It is easier to find such info on Audyssey, Anthem (also IIR, at least in earlier years) and Dirac.

To be clear, I am not suggesting one is better than the other, or even important, but I think it is better not to give people the impression that YPAO uses FIR when it is more likely IIR. As to the R.S.C. part, my understanding is that it is on the measurement side of things, not filtering.

 

[peng]

I'm just beginning to scratch the surface of how powerful REW is in helping improve ones audio system. Thanks for showing me that!

Yes it really is powerful, very impressive. I have been using it with Dirac Live and it could in fact result in slightly better results, on paper anyway.