Has anybody tried Tidal's Dolby Atmos?

[dmac6419]

I gave it a try using my AppleTV connected to my Yamaha RX-A2070. The Atmos playlist only contains thug's music, and the Atmos effect is very limited. A total waste of the format. I wasn't able to find any piece of music that can take full advantage of immersive audio. Why would anyone bother mixing crap "music" like RAP/hip-hop/pop in Atmos?

I don't even think the music was truly remastered in Atmos. It sound like they took the original stereo master and decoded it using DSU and then encoded the not discrete channels as Atmos, because I get a better surround effect by playing the stereo version of the song using DSU...

What's thug music, you sound stupid

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

What's thug music

As a civilized Italian mafioso you listen to Opera.

Obviously.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Outside of the current racist connotations, the "Thuggees" were a fascinating Indian murder cult that assassinated millions over hundreds of years.

https://www.damninteresting.com/the-thugs-of-india/

 

[srrxr71]

Let’s face it things like Atmos for music with the possible exception of attempting to reproduce classical music in a large music hall, is going to be a parlor trick.

That doesn’t mean it is bad at all. Sometimes we have to step back and stop taking this all too seriously. Music is entertainment at the end of the day. And so what if someone takes creative liberties and moves vocals around you in space? It could be quite entertaining even if it is a parlor trick.

It’s just another creative medium of expression. Someone might use the technology to pipe soft vocals from a duet to appear as though one singer is whispering in your right ear and the other in your left ear. Then when the music gets stronger to move them up front side by side.

If we remember this is just entertainment and nothing to take so seriously the creative applications of this technology are immense.

If you feel the only “real” reproduced music has to use surround technology only to represent a feel of a hall or a space or to enhance stereo imaging then that’s fine too. However I suspect the market will disagree. Very few recordings using this tech will cater to people holding this opinion.

This was debated ad nauseam back in the sacd vs dvd-audio days.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

I have encountered recordings that place instruments in their own channel. It's really quite intriguing to listen to, as if you are sitting amongst the musicians instead of them being on a stage before you.

I'd imagine Atmos might do very well with that kind of thing, especially on headphones.

One example:
https://www.tacet.de/main/seite1.php?language=en&filename=download.php

 

[jhaider]

Some people really like RAP/hip-hop/pop. "Crap" music is just your opinion.

I'm curious how people who, for various reasons (none that reflect well on the individual, though some are more damning than others) make public statements that rap/hip-hop is not music (or art) square that ignorant position with Hamilton.

Hamilton is grounded in those arts, and full of hip-hop references. Biggie, Ja Rule*, DMX, Jay-Z, Mobb Deep, Busta Rhymes, Eminem, Cypress Hill, all inform the text, score, and feel of various songs. Ancient battles of ideas or contextualized as freestyle rap battles. Eliza’s diction is straight outta’ Bey. "Helpless" is an obvious ode to the Ja Rule + diva (J-Lo etc.) duets of the early 2000s*.

*The mixtape makes the subtext text: “Helpless” is performed by Ashanti and Ja Rule.

Is the Hamilton score not music?

Let’s face it things like Atmos for music with the possible exception of attempting to reproduce classical music in a large music hall, is going to be a parlor trick.

Another way to look at it is that multichannel can elevate a recording to the multimedia art installation.

 

[jhwalker]

I'm curious how people who, for various reasons (none that reflect well on the individual, though some are more damning than others) make public statements that rap/hip-hop is not music (or art) square that ignorant position with Hamilton.

Hamilton is grounded in those arts, and full of hip-hop references. Biggie, Ja Rule*, DMX, Jay-Z, Mobb Deep, Busta Rhymes, Eminem, Cypress Hill, all inform the text, score, and feel of various songs. Ancient battles of ideas or contextualized as freestyle rap battles. Eliza’s diction is straight outta’ Bey. "Helpless" is an obvious ode to the Ja Rule + diva (J-Lo etc.) duets of the early 2000s*.

*The mixtape makes the subtext text: “Helpless” is performed by Ashanti and Ja Rule.

Is the Hamilton score not music?

Though I utterly despise the OP's comment re: "thug" music, rap / hip-hop is just so much noise to me. And "Hamilton" is the same; i.e,. not my taste, at ALL.

I would never say it's not "music," though - just not my cup of tea.

 

[jhaider]

Though I utterly despise the OP's comment re: "thug" music, rap / hip-hop is just so much noise to me. And "Hamilton" is the same; i.e,. not my taste, at ALL.

I would never say it's not "music," though - just not my cup of tea.

Nobody’s trying to be taste police here. Hell, one of our greatest living humans, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, works out to preindustrial melodramas.

The issue is the one you identified in your first clause above.

 

[Sancus]

That doesn’t mean it is bad at all. Sometimes we have to step back and stop taking this all too seriously. Music is entertainment at the end of the day. And so what if someone takes creative liberties and moves vocals around you in space? It could be quite entertaining even if it is a parlor trick.

I dunno I think the perspective that frontal/stereo music is "normal" and "everything else is weird" is basically just a construct. We only have that perception for historical reasons. There's no particular reason you couldn't arrange performers in different ways, it's really more of a practical restriction on venues than anything INHERENT to music.

For example, as heard by the conductor, classical orchestral would more correctly have a horseshoe shaped soundstage with musicians to your left and right, not just in front of you. That's not(generally) how you will hear it at a venue, but that's just a practical limitation, right? It's enjoyable to experience it from the conductor's perspective, and there's quite a bit of surround classical that is recorded/mixed to sound like this. In general, when it is done, I think it's way more interesting than stereo and it also allows you to hear "more stuff" in the recording when all the musical information isn't crammed into two channels.

In this TIDAL playlist, the song Señorita by Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello is mixed in a pretty interesting way, where the female vocals start at the front and the male ones start behind you. It adds an interesting dimension to the song. I don't generally like his music but I still found that to be a really enjoyable experience, and that's really the whole point of music, right? There's no reason you couldn't hear the song acoustically like this in real life, it would just have to be a very different performance from a typical venue with far fewer listeners.... which is why it won't generally be done. But why not transcend the physical limitations?

I don't have any illusions that surround music is going to overtake stereo at any point, but I do think it's worth doing and I'm really glad that organizations like 2L exist because you'd almost never get the opportunity to hear music like that otherwise.

 

[srrxr71]

I dunno I think the perspective that frontal/stereo music is "normal" and "everything else is weird" is basically just a construct. We only have that perception for historical reasons. There's no particular reason you couldn't arrange performers in different ways, it's really more of a practical restriction on venues than anything INHERENT to music.

For example, as heard by the conductor, classical orchestral would more correctly have a horseshoe shaped soundstage with musicians to your left and right, not just in front of you. That's not(generally) how you will hear it at a venue, but that's just a practical limitation, right? It's enjoyable to experience it from the conductor's perspective, and there's quite a bit of surround classical that is recorded/mixed to sound like this. In general, when it is done, I think it's way more interesting than stereo and it also allows you to hear "more stuff" in the recording when all the musical information isn't crammed into two channels.

In this TIDAL playlist, the song Señorita by Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello is mixed in a pretty interesting way, where the female vocals start at the front and the male ones start behind you. It adds an interesting dimension to the song. I don't generally like his music but I still found that to be a really enjoyable experience, and that's really the whole point of music, right? There's no reason you couldn't hear the song acoustically like this in real life, it would just have to be a very different performance from a typical venue with far fewer listeners.... which is why it won't generally be done. But why not transcend the physical limitations?

I don't have any illusions that surround music is going to overtake stereo at any point, but I do think it's worth doing and I'm really glad that organizations like 2L exist because you'd almost never get the opportunity to hear music like that otherwise.

Totally agree. I think “parlor trick” was a harsh way of describing it. It would be so only in relation to stereo which I completely agree is a historical construct. It was more of how a 2 channel “purist” would look at it.

I think we take traditional 2 channel a little too seriously.

Ambisonics has been around since the 70s but only today do we have the technology to actually consumerize it. We have small, cheap ambisonics microphones which will capture the sound space. It would be the easiest way to record multi channel audio.

Although I called the more creative forms of a “parlor trick” I still respect the creative process in using the technology to create new aural experiences. It’s just if the creator doesn’t have their heart behind it and just have to provide a mix that utilizes 11 channels to get paid for example.

Some of the coolest music we have is filled with “parlor tricks” and I enjoy it all. Even the venerated Beatles have played with recording tape in all kinds of ways. So who is to say what is “pure” or not. We would be pretty much left with classical performances in concert halls. What a boring world that would make.

I would definitely like to try the recording you mention. However I am not set up for atmos. I hope Apple will just me buy 7 homepods and make that my multichannel listening system.

 

[srrxr71]

I'm curious how people who, for various reasons (none that reflect well on the individual, though some are more damning than others) make public statements that rap/hip-hop is not music (or art) square that ignorant position with Hamilton.

Hamilton is grounded in those arts, and full of hip-hop references. Biggie, Ja Rule*, DMX, Jay-Z, Mobb Deep, Busta Rhymes, Eminem, Cypress Hill, all inform the text, score, and feel of various songs. Ancient battles of ideas or contextualized as freestyle rap battles. Eliza’s diction is straight outta’ Bey. "Helpless" is an obvious ode to the Ja Rule + diva (J-Lo etc.) duets of the early 2000s*.

*The mixtape makes the subtext text: “Helpless” is performed by Ashanti and Ja Rule.

Is the Hamilton score not music?



Another way to look at it is that multichannel can elevate a recording to the multimedia art installation.

I think I was a bit discouraged this morning and looking at everything from the studio 2 channel perspective. It’s just that we fuss so much and spend so much to manage 2 channels and outside of expensive room treatment we can barely get that right. I shudder to think about the expense of running 7.2.4 for example. A budget set for 2 speakers would now be split between 11 now. Either that or multiplied by 5.5.

Basically we would just have to get over a lot of 2 channel OCD issues and just let it all go and enjoy the experience. To stop obsessing about equipment to the minutest degree. Would we accept a change to a pair of speakers which cost 20% of we paid for the pair? No you cannot hear the (insert a bunch of bs audiophile marketing terms here) on these new speakers but overall the whole experience has been taken to a new level.

I hope we get a plethora of content for all the trouble

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Personally, I think having any part of a music ensemble playing behind me or (even worse) having their sound emanate from the ceiling would irritate the crap outta me. Maybe I'm just getting old.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

I'm curious how people who, for various reasons (none that reflect well on the individual, though some are more damning than others) make public statements that rap/hip-hop is not music (or art) square that ignorant position with Hamilton.[/QUOTE]

I do not know Hamilton (google says it's a musical?) but I think I can offer an explanation as to why people say such things:

My ear functions pretty much in a binary way: Either I like the music and can appreciate it as art or I don't. In the latter case, it's about as artistic to my ears as a jackhammer on a pavement. So my first impulse would also be along the line "This isn't music at all, this is nonsense."

Obviously that reaction is highly illogical because we humans tend to forget just how vast the differences between individuals are. Think about it: your brain functions differently enough from mine, that your perception is altered enough for you to find pleasure in sth. that I cannot stand for a mere two minutes w/o wanting to EMP the stereo. It boggles the mind if you really think about this.

So, once the logic sector of my brain tempers the first impulse response, I can then, more objectively say: "I do not like it at all but I can still recognize the work the artist put into his craft and acknowledge that it pleases other people." I think some folks just don't do this second pass of thinking before they speak. Hell, there are times when I fail at that too and give in to primitive impulse. >.<

Personally, I think having any part of a music ensemble playing behind me or (even worse) having their sound emanate from the ceiling would irritate the crap outta me. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Well, ceiling would definitely feel a bit weird, I agree. From all sides is not so different than me standing among other musicians while playing my flute. Maybe that's why I don't perceive it as unnatural? To me it's simply another perspective to listen from. Another position of my seat, if you will.

 

[Sasha]

Hopefully Tidal will add some OG Thug Music in the near future: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/sep/21/secret-bach-teenage-thug

 

[dmac6419]

I have It's pretty good if you have atmos system and speakers hooked up

 

[Lattiboy]

It is entertaining to me that the people who say shit like this inevitably love Fleetwood Mac or the Eagles. Implying that somehow Tupac is less an artist than a bunch of white coke heads endlessly singing about middle age romantic entanglements....

 

[Newman]

Music is entertainment at the end of the day.

Well it started its day as highly spiritual art and cultural expression. There has always been every reason to take music seriously.

If, at the end of the day, it is just entertainment as you say, then it has been debased beyond recognition by its journey from its prehistoric origins, and I would be infinitely sad to think that, at the end of the day, music is defined by the shallowest and most selfish of consumption-based perspectives.

cheers

 

[srrxr71]

Oh give me a break and get some atmos enhanced icaros or mantras. This is an atmos thread - it’s about being entertained. A real spiritual person doesn’t care if music is being played by a $15 boom box or a $100k audiophile setup. Maybe we have debased music by focusing everything on the equipment being used to play it.

 

[Taddpole]

I would assume that music of some sort predates spirituality and mysticism

 

[Brookt]

Atmos is awesome through my Denon AVR , Emotiva power amp, Def tech surrounds, atmos and Klipsch Forte mains. Riders on the Storm is perfectly remixed , thunder crashing down from the ceiling, panning left and right ,rain pour down and coming from everywhere.
George Micheal also has some great mixes.

It's really about the quality of the mix. Some obviously put in the time and remix every channel like they are mixing the audio for a Star Wars movie , others just splash some left or right channels into the surrounds for vague ambience.

I use Apple TV and while not heaps of quality Atmos on Tidal, the good ones are well worth it.
It's worth it just for Riders On The Storm