Exactly. Small speaker with high SPL and bandwidth is impossible in itself. The end result can be done with magic trick though: hide big subs into furniture so you see only small speakers. This is what I do. In fact, I'd like the small speakers disappear as well, all I want is great sound.
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Harmonic distortion at 96db
- Thread starter gasolin75
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It's like wtf not many speakers play 96db with low harmonic distortion ?
Most do fine at 86db 1 watt might be 86 db = 10 watt is 96 db and many speakers can handle 100 watt rms, so why this high harmonic distortion with 10 watt when rms is 100 watt ?
Most do fine at 86db 1 watt might be 86 db = 10 watt is 96 db and many speakers can handle 100 watt rms, so why this high harmonic distortion with 10 watt when rms is 100 watt ?
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Because small bookshelf speakers can't.
(depends on what you mean by low distortion in that case though)
Because physics is real.
MaxwellsEq
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Loving this thread. So much help and guidance is being politely offered by knowledgeable people.
Unlike marketing
olieb
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In the range 60-80Hz a speaker will radiate as a monopole (omnidirectional).
For 96dB spl (in 1m) at 80Hz an air displacement volume of ≈73ccm is needed. [that pesky physics thing]
A typical 6inch driver (you don't want 8") has a radiating area of 120-135cm^2.
So you need 5-6mm peak excursion. Now you might have an idea why a 6inch driver might have problems to do that with perfect linearity. A BR port can help (a bit), but the tuning typically is lower than 80Hz and for good reason, because below the tuning frequency there will be hardly any sound and the excursion will become a problem.
Speakers that can ”handle" 100W seldom can handle that in low bass.
EDITs for improved accuracy
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Jiraya369
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can you even hear the distortion? And yeah, many speakers can do 110db but how clean are they?
So what do you even want man? A good quality speaker or something that just looks good on measurements for the sake of it? Distortion is the last thing you need to care about if directivity and frequency response aren't taken care of first.
Besides, it's a tiny bookshelf, why do you want deep bass from a book shelf? Do you also want to tow like 200 tonnes with a Toyota Corolla? OMG THE COROLLA SUCKS IT CANT DO THIS THING THAT TRUCKS CAN DO
A speakers sensitivity / efficiency isn't equal in the entire frequency range. 96dB at 1khz and 10hz doesn't require the same amount of power. Also, the required excursion of the driver rise sharply as frequency goes down. This graph shows the required excursion in mm of a random driver in order to provide the same SPL at different frequencies. Notice what happens when we approach and go below 100hz. The Y-axis is mm. This is an 8" driver that is more powerful than what you can find in almost any bookshelf speaker. Still, it approaches it's excursion limit in the lowest frequencies with only 100W in.
The SPL level simulated here (around 102dB/1m) requires less than 1mm excursion at 200hz. The same SPL at 60hz requires 6mm, which is at or beyond the excursion limit of the woofer in most bookshelf speakers.
Sokel
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Aside from the pool of knowledge been offered here for free (physics does not have sense of humor and does not give free gifts) you might want to have an equal capable amp to measure low distortion, (the reviews that show reduced power down low is a good indication, despite what they measure at 1kHz and the advertised or measured burst power)
An example, both amps WAY into their power ability, in fact the smaller one measures some 15dB better SINAD at 1kHz.
But...
bigger one (1200as2)
smaller one (300a2)
Note, anything below 30Hz is because that's the speakers limit
Happy new year to all!
An example, both amps WAY into their power ability, in fact the smaller one measures some 15dB better SINAD at 1kHz.
But...
bigger one (1200as2)
smaller one (300a2)
Note, anything below 30Hz is because that's the speakers limit
Happy new year to all!
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- Thread Starter
- #52
The 60-80hz is what most use if they have subwoofer (crossover)
I generalize, if 1 watt is 86 db, 10 watt is 96db, not many speaker are flat, better with room correction
Im not talking about 96 db at 60-80hz but just 96db avarage peak and what it's is down to 60-80hz or a little lower without a high pass filter
My speakers can handle what power my amp has and it does according to amirm play 100% without distortion (wiim amp pro), personally i limit my amp to 85%
Sokel
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This one?
Low distortion, yes, at normal listening listening levels you're looking at a 90dB to 65dB SINAD depending the frequencies measured and some worst IMD distortion.
But 100% without distortion... I don't know of such an amp, even the best of th best have some.
Audible though? Probably not.
And as long as it does not face any low load under 4 Ohm you'll be fine.
Sokel
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My rule of thumb at low's distortion (low enough) is when high levels (over 100dB SPL (C) ) go from clean vvvvmmmm to vvvRRRRmmm with tones
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staticV3
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FYI, no Amp distorts at max power if you restrict its input voltage appropriately.
WiiM can do that easily since the Amp Pro is so highly integrated, but so can you at home.
It's not a special attribute of the Amp.
Sokel
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I think you have to read the test to understand it.
There's two ways to do this (actually more but lets say two)
-The one is to let the amp go naturally into clipping (some do it gradually, some are more aggressive to it)
-the other is to add a kind of limiter or protection circuit that instantly cuts of the output, that's the one we see here.
I don't know the reasoning behind this engineering approach so I won;t speculate.
The point is that either amps (the one who clips and this one) will both be fine if kept inside their limits.
As long as one does not do anything stupid with this amp, as very high levels or low loads or filling dips with RC down low, it will be just fine.
The lowest distortion in a small speaker that is REALLY affordable is the JBL Stage A130. It was super cheap and has outperformed all my other speakers in my small room, with a bit of EQ.
Most impressive was the low amount of distortion:
If those resonances were not there around 1 kHz and at 15 kHz, this would look even cleaner.
I keep going back to them after using my other speakers. The mid frequency distortion drops when EQ'd as does the high frequency distortion peak.
I'll have to test mine (I have 2 pairs of A130s) from a distortion perspective (at high volumes) against my more recent speakers - as to me they don't sound as good as the Polk R200s and Kef Q350s I've now upgraded to (one of the pairs of A130s is being used as Atmos heights now, the other pair unconnected behind the sofa) even though from a distortion perspective they measure better in some respects
obviously there is dispersion, flatness (even after EQ) etc etc at play - but there must be more factors as well. The A130s sounded great but very "live" but to me sounded a bit uncontrolled and shouty especially at higher volumes
the R200s in-comparison sound more controlled even at higher volumes
which doesn't really match the testing results, as I said the above is completely subjective though
I'll just note that the sample Amir got was considerably better than the one Erin got.
