Harman To Acquire B&W, Denon, Polk And Marantz From Masimo In $350 Million Deal

[techsamurai]

Sorry but not sure why so sarcastic and interpreting posts of other people in the way they were not worded?

If you read my post, you will get to a very different conclusion than you did. ART of course will work with 1 sub, or no subs at all if you have appropriate speakers - and is as of now exclusive to Storm that starts at $16K, but you easily get to $20K with the "necessary" options.

I'm guessing your point is that an owner of a Denon 3800H which is considered an entry-level AVR with tons of features and well reviewed, will have the option to use ART which is now exclusive to very high-end AVRs. I think it's great that they will offer that.

My point is also valid in wondering how many folks who own a 3800H will also own multiple subs (the AVR supports up to 4) and buy an ART license without even talking about whether you also need a DL license.

In many ways, it's almost like offering a Ferrari 500hp engine for a Fiat 500 or if you prefer an Alfa Romeo (which they did).

This whole talk of channels upon channels upon channels upon a DL license, a DLBC license, an ART license is imho why the Cinema 30 now costs $4,500 when it used to cost $2,000 and on sale for $1,200. Granted inflation and now tariffs affect that.

 

[Oddball]

I'm guessing your point is that an owner of a Denon 3800H which is considered an entry-level AVR with tons of features and well reviewed, will have the option to use ART which is now exclusive to very high-end AVRs. I think it's great that they will offer that.

My point is also valid in wondering how many folks who own a 3800H will also own multiple subs (the AVR supports up to 4) and buy an ART license without even talking about whether you also need a DL license.

In many ways, it's almost like offering a Ferrari 500hp engine for a Fiat 500 or if you prefer an Alfa Romeo (which they did).

This whole talk of channels upon channels upon channels upon a DL license, a DLBC license, an ART license is imho why the Cinema 30 now costs $4,500 when it used to cost $2,000 and on sale for $1,200. Granted inflation and now tariffs affect that.

Can't really understand why so negative and cynical again.

Some of 3800H users have already upgraded to DLBC - check the various forums if you need the number and stats. ART will likely cost them $299 which would be acceptable charge for curiosity and hope of major improvement. As noted, this has noting to do with multiple subs.

Not sure I follow the automotive analogy but it is true - AV-20/10 will have the same ART horsepower as 3800H. Storm will have a different implementation of ART due to their technical capabilities but that is a different story - and sure audible effect will be compared once all set and done.

Pricing of used components is what is always attractive. If you want appreciation, you need to look into a different class of assets to invest - and BTW please let me know which one if you have it figured out - risk free.

 

[techsamurai]

Some of 3800H users have already upgraded to DLBC - check the various forums if you need the number and stats. ART will likely cost them $299 which would be acceptable charge for curiosity and hope of major improvement. As noted, this has noting to do with multiple subs.

What is the full cost of DL ART? Do you need DL + DLBC + ART? And that's per AVR, right?

 

[Oddball]

Based on current pricing model you would need to pay full package which it appears is $299 above the package D&M owners might have obtained in the past for the DLBC pricing.

 

[techsamurai]

Based on current pricing model you would need to pay full package which it appears is $299 above the package D&M owners might have obtained in the past for the DLBC pricing.

For the Denon 4800H, that's $599 for the DL and DLBC bundle - so $900 altogether. That's almost the price of a Sonos Arc Ultra.

I bought the Denon 4800H for $1,400 so that would be 2/3s of the cost of the AVR and tied to the device afaik.

 

[masterhw]

For the Denon 4800H, that's $599 for the DL and DLBC bundle - so $900 altogether. That's almost the price of a Sonos Arc Ultra.

I bought the Denon 4800H for $1,400 so that would be 2/3s of the cost of the AVR and tied to the device afaik.

And yet an X4800H with DLBC+ART would almost certainly sound better than a stock X6800H of comparable net price.
Its a meaningful upgrade that can be added on at any point in the AVR's life, providing the rare meaningful software upgrade/upsell owners can opt for either right away or after a couple years of ownership as a moderate option short of an entirely new AVR.

 

[Arc78]

Well, I have to say that it's impressive that B&W, Marantz, and Denon have managed to launch so many products over the past 3 years considering the turmoil.

Really good products too b&w asw608 and Denon x4800h just to mention incredible value for price

 

[Arc78]

For the Denon 4800H, that's $599 for the DL and DLBC bundle - so $900 altogether. That's almost the price of a Sonos Arc Ultra.

I bought the Denon 4800H for $1,400 so that would be 2/3s of the cost of the AVR and tied to the device afaik.

Well yes its expensive but what an opportunity your avr will compete with a 6k$ if you add an pro power amp you might probably be in the same class as a 10k$ receiver for 35% of the cost. That’s incredible value for money spent…

 

[techsamurai]

And yet an X4800H with DLBC+ART would almost certainly sound better than a stock X6800H of comparable net price.
Its a meaningful upgrade that can be added on at any point in the AVR's life, providing the rare meaningful software upgrade/upsell owners can opt for either right away or after a couple years of ownership as a moderate option short of an entirely new AVR.

I guess the assumption is that the X6800H would be running with stock AudysseyXT32.

How much better would it sound? Are the benefits the same for a 5.1 system or do they increase with more speakers?

 

[EJ3]

We don’t have an optical disk player any more

I don't stream. (Where I live, I can't stream, anyway, not without rigging an antenna system for that purpose).
But I won't be vulnerable to the vagaries of the power companies and governments anyway.
Although, next year, when I (hopefully) digitize my albums (from 1927 to now), & my CD's, I will stream from within my system. I can definitely be off the grid 100% and have water, power & food enough for a month including enough to listen to my music. whenever I want to.
Unless I get a direct hit from a tornado (there are small ones around here occasionally) or an earthquake (there is a road named Fault Line Road around here) or some other catastrophe of that level, I'll be listening to what I choose to have, when I want to, whenever I feel like it.

 

[EJ3]

Bad analogy.

Analog loudness curves actually partially worked, and had the Fletcher Munson theory correct, but lacked execution sophistication.

1 or 2, it seems, where actually quite close to theoretically correct, from what I have been told.
But most (if not all) suffered the "lack of properly "finessed" execution sophistication.

 

[watchnerd]

I don't stream. (Where I live, I can't stream, anyway, not without rigging an antenna system for that purpose).
But I won't be vulnerable to the vagaries of the power companies and governments anyway.
Although, next year, when I (hopefully) digitize my albums (from 1927 to now), & my CD's, I will stream from within my system. I can definitely be off the grid 100% and have water, power & food enough for a month including enough to listen to my music. whenever I want to.
Unless I get a direct hit from a tornado (there are small ones around here occasionally) or an earthquake (there is a road named Fault Line Road around here) or some other catastrophe of that level, I'll be listening to what I choose to have, when I want to, whenever I feel like it.

I stream from music from my own NAS over Roon.

1.7TB of FLACs.

 

[EJ3]

I stream from music from my own NAS over Roon.

1.7TB of FLACs.

Why over Roon?

 

[watchnerd]

Why over Roon?

Because I like the features and ecosystem.

There are a couple big Roon users on the site. @amirm seems to use it a lot.

 

[EJ3]

Because I like the features and ecosystem.

There are a couple big Roon users on the site. @amirm seems to use it a lot.

Is Roon something that you have to be connected to the internet to have?
Is it a buy & you have it?
Or is it an internet thing that is a subscription.
I know a lot of folks and have never heard even one say I"I have Roon".
So, other than here, I have never heard of it. (Yes, I hear about it a lot here and for many years).
But in Saipan, Guam and the people I know in the area that I am currently in, no one that I know seems to have it (although some say "Yeah, I've heard the name."
So I ask the what people in non-rural areas (I guess) may think is a stupid question: What is Roon & why is it special?
If it involves streaming, the only thing that I see anyone streaming is TV shows (kind of like them having cable, I guess).
I'm probably the only one that doesn't own a TV (my wife & I dropped that in 2007 when we moved from Saipan to Guam [both places without over the air TV]).
It is another thing that I am now looking into but only for the 36 over the air HDTV channels that some are getting here.

 

[Keith_W]

Is Roon something that you have to be connected to the internet to have?

Yes and no. Roon can work without an internet connection, in which case it only plays files that you store locally. But most people use Roon to take advantage of the features that are only available when connected to the internet, such as streaming.

Is it a buy & you have it?
Or is it an internet thing that is a subscription.

Again, yes and no. You can buy it outright, or you can choose a subscription.

I know a lot of folks and have never heard even one say I"I have Roon".

That's a function of where you live and your friends. Most folks I know say "I have Roon". I am the exception, I don't have it

If it involves streaming, the only thing that I see anyone streaming is TV shows (kind of like them having cable, I guess).

You should try streaming music, it's amazing!

I'm probably the only one that doesn't own a TV (my wife & I dropped that in 2007 when we moved from Saipan to Guam [both places without over the air TV]).

You're not the only one. When my TV died, I decided not to replace it. I don't watch TV.

 

[Palladium]

I live in Florida, and for the last 10-15 years there's less and less of interest in speakers, turntables, any sort of very good system in the home for listening to sound.
Bought a older Roland piano from a guy last week who seems to be a well off guitar player, who saw my Chapman Stick and said he had never seen one in person.
He was sort of amazed at the 4 turntables, the reel to reel and the good amount of recording gear, but at no point did he ask to hear the audio system - even just for one song.
So I would think that the audio equipment is really moving to rather expensive gear for people who are either still into it, and have the money to spend - or the couple of folks who have the space and desire to just show off. When I was a kid I was super exited to see and hear other peoples stereos when my parents brought me along, my grandkids these days don't seem to care about it, even when I play music they like.

This reminds me of a video made by a very self-aware Chinese high-end Hi-Fi vendor who said traditional audio is of course dying when even rich people can't be bothered to deal with physical media, tubes, bulky gear and snake oil; most would rather listen music in their cars since its so much more convenient.

 

[EJ3]

Yes and no. Roon can work without an internet connection, in which case it only plays files that you store locally. But most people use Roon to take advantage of the features that are only available when connected to the internet, such as streaming.



Again, yes and no. You can buy it outright, or you can choose a subscription.



That's a function of where you live and your friends. Most folks I know say "I have Roon". I am the exception, I don't have it



You should try streaming music, it's amazing!



You're not the only one. When my TV died, I decided not to replace it. I don't watch TV.

Thank you.

For my location at my main home on a black water river & at the end of the power grid (on a small peninsula that is a bend in the river, the road is a 2 track rut that unless your vehicle has at least the ground clearance of a Subaru Wilderness Edition & TRUE 2 wheel drive, you may be waiting a while for someone with a tractor to get your vehicle unstuck) a cell phone signal is available only if one stands on a certain spot on my deck (and it is very intermittent, as in within a 2 minute call you may or may not loose connection 5 times (about average). (Yep, run on sentence) If you don't, you'll consider that great luck & maybe drive somewhere to buy a lottery ticket.
This location makes streaming a more difficult option than I would care to tackle. Also, I own enough music that I doubt I'll listen to it all again in the rest of my lifetime.
And I find the vast amount of FM radio stations to be just fine. The ones that I listen to keep me up with what is happening locally. (In about 100 mile radius). As well as some national news.
I see about many people in various floating devices, kayaks, outboard boats, passing by the front of my place.
A few times a year, someone comes by in a six wheel drive truck, drives to the end of the peninsula, hangs out for 20 minutes to an hour & leaves again.
It's nice & quiet. The background noise is low & I do not have to turn my music up to STUN to enjoy it.
I leave to go visit people & buy food & hit a record store once a month about 40 miles away (they carry new & old records, CD's, DVD's, Blue Rays, 4K and all sorts of somewhat loosely related stuff. And have a sale the first Saturday of every month.

 

[EJ3]

I live in Florida, and for the last 10-15 years there's less and less of interest in speakers, turntables, any sort of very good system in the home for listening to sound.
Bought a older Roland piano from a guy last week who seems to be a well off guitar player, who saw my Chapman Stick and said he had never seen one in person.
He was sort of amazed at the 4 turntables, the reel to reel and the good amount of recording gear, but at no point did he ask to hear the audio system - even just for one song.
So I would think that the audio equipment is really moving to rather expensive gear for people who are either still into it, and have the money to spend - or the couple of folks who have the space and desire to just show off. When I was a kid I was super exited to see and hear other peoples stereos when my parents brought me along, my grandkids these days don't seem to care about it, even when I play music they like.

I've never seen a Chapman Stick at all until I looked it up. I'm 68, ran sound for regional rock bands in the 80's, DJ'ed Rock, Country Radio stations & recorded for a 60 piece band (Hollywood Show tunes & the like.
I remember hearing about them and seeing it listed on the credits of things here or there but until today, had never seen one (but, through recordings, have heard them.
So prior to 10 minutes ago, had I seen it, I would have asked: "What is that?"
I am a world traveler, having been in lots of European & Asian countries (many times & for more than 3 weeks at a clip) & islands in the Western Pacific & Indian Ocean (the latter 2 where I lived for 17 years) & Australia.
I've seen many unusual instruments.
But missed that one.

 

[Palmer]

I've never seen a Chapman Stick at all until I looked it up. I'm 68, ran sound for regional rock bands in the 80's, DJ'ed Rock, Country Radio stations & recorded for a 60 piece band (Hollywood Show tunes & the like.
I remember hearing about them and seeing it listed on the credits of things here or there but until today, had never seen one (but, through recordings, have heard them.
So prior to 10 minutes ago, had I seen it, I would have asked: "What is that?"
I am a world traveler, having been in lots of European & Asian countries (many times & for more than 3 weeks at a clip) & islands in the Western Pacific & Indian Ocean (the latter 2 where I lived for 17 years) & Australia.
I've seen many unusual instruments.
But missed that one.

I have had the pleasure of buying the Stick from Emmet himself, back in LA 1983 I think. Never got real good on it but it is my oldest instrument and I love it.
Tony Levin is my favorite player...