Harman To Acquire B&W, Denon, Polk And Marantz From Masimo In $350 Million Deal

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

TBH, I think we're well past the golden age of audio research when it comes to traditional home audio.

Samsung / Harman's corporate priorities (cockpit audio, mobile) tell us where the R&D money will go.

If I was a next generation acoustic engineer, I'd much rather work on audio systems for self-driving cars or immersive gaming than conventional stereo reproduction.

R&D will bleed over to home audio. Demand always been issue. Same laments 50 years ago

 

[watchnerd]

I don't think so, there Is still so much more we don't know about in acoustics.

And immersive audio like multi-channel is not easy to get large adoption due to cost of equipment, cost of content production and space required. Especially on Europe and Asia, where space is very limited, it is very hard to get a large number of customer base.

I'm not disputing that there are many things we don't know.

I'm disputing that there is big money to be made in funding ground-breaking further research, versus iterating and monetizing what we already know.

 

[watchnerd]

R&D will bleed over to home audio. Demand always been issue. Same laments 50 years ago

And how much progress has been made in 50 years?

CD / digital was the last big leap forward.

Everything else just been iterations and refinements, and many market adoption failures (e.g. SACD / DSD)

Even recent attempts by MQA can't actually improve upon lossless PCM.

 

[Steve Dallas]

And how much progress has been made in 50 years?

CD / digital was the last big leap forward.

Everything else just been iterations and refinements, and many market adoption failures (e.g. SACD / DSD)

Even recent attempts by MQA can't actually improve upon lossless PCM.

I would argue that DSP is the last big leap forward. I use it in all of my systems now. Absolutely game-changing in the bass and lower mid frequencies.

 

[amper42]

I would argue that DSP is the last big leap forward. I use it in all of my systems now. Absolutely game-changing in the bass and lower mid frequencies.

Totally agree. When you take EQ to the next logical step with the Loudness control built into ADI-2 DAC FS it's an absolute game changer. In fact, if most speaker buyers were aware of the difference the ADI-2 software can make using the Loudness settings we would have a lot more satisfied listeners.

 

[watchnerd]

I would argue that DSP is the last big leap forward. I use it in all of my systems now. Absolutely game-changing in the bass and lower mid frequencies.

I guess I lumped that under evolution of digital, but fair point.

But even DSP is decades old now.

 

[watchnerd]

Totally agree. When you take EQ to the next logical step with the Loudness control built into ADI-2 DAC FS it's an absolute game changer. In fact, if most speaker buyers were aware of the difference the ADI-2 software can make using the Loudness settings we would have a lot more satisfied listeners.

This is making my point.

That an iterative, better version of the Loudness button from the 1970s is considered game changing is surely signs of a mature technology path past its rapid innovation peak.

 

[amper42]

Comparing the RME Loudness controls using the ADI-2 software app to the Loudness button of 1970's is like:
Comparing blood-letting with leeches to cure disease versus modern day heart transplants and stent procedures.

The outcomes are quite different!

 

[watchnerd]

Comparing the RME Loudness controls using the ADI-2 software app to the Loudness button of 1970's is like:
Comparing blood-letting with leeches to cure disease versus modern day heart transplants and stent procedures.

The outcomes are quite different!

Bad analogy.

Analog loudness curves actually partially worked, and had the Fletcher Munson theory correct, but lacked execution sophistication.

Leeches didn't do anything for coronary artery disease and were based on bad theories about blood humors.

 

[amper42]

Bad analogy.

Analog loudness curves actually partially worked, and had the Fletcher Munson theory correct, but lacked execution sophistication.

Leeches didn't do anything for coronary artery disease and were based on bad theories about blood humors.

I think the analogy is right on. The old Loudness buttons were typically bass crazy and made music sound horrible with most volume levels.
It was rare when a 1970 loudness button setting was desirable and offered zero drawbacks. It certainly didn't stay engaged long for most of us.

In Contrast: The RME loudness controls offer:
1. The ability to target Frequency ranges impacted.
2. The ability to set the slope.
3, The ability to impact treble and bass or just one.
4. Set the volume range where RME Loudness settings engage.
5. Automatically reduce EQ impact as music volume rises to maintain Fletcher Munson formula.

There is nothing else out there quite like this. In comparison, the Denon "Dynamic EQ" option is very limited. Each Reference Level Offset setting is a compromise. Imagine if shoe stores only carried 4 sizes in Mens shoe. Size 8, 10, 12 and 14, no wide/narrow or orthotics were available. We would all be limping.

 

[watchnerd]

I think the analogy is right on. The old Loudness buttons were typically bass crazy and made music sound horrible with most volume levels.
It was rare when a 1970 loudness button setting was desirable and offered zero drawbacks. It certainly didn't stay engaged long for most of us.

In Contrast: The RME loudness controls offer:
1. The ability to target Frequency ranges impacted.
2. The ability to set the slope.
3, The ability to impact treble and bass or just one.
4. Set the volume range where RME Loudness settings engage.
5. Automatically reduce EQ impact as music volume rises to maintain Fletcher Munson formula.

There is nothing else out there quite like this. In comparison, the Denon "Dynamic EQ" option is very limited. Each Reference Level Offset setting is a compromise. Imagine if shoe stores only carried 4 sizes in Mens shoe. Size 8, 10, 12 and 14, no wide/narrow or orthotics were available. We would all be limping.

They were bass crazy, I agree.

But they were still trying to implement the 1933 work by Fletcher-Munson.

That's nothing like leeches, which had no basis in modern scientific theory about cardiac disease.

 

[mhardy6647]

Bad analogy.

Analog loudness curves actually partially worked, and had the Fletcher Munson theory correct, but lacked execution sophistication.

Leeches didn't do anything for coronary artery disease and were based on bad theories about blood humors.

meh (vis-a-vis execution sophistication in the 1970s).


From the Yamaha CR-2020 receiver (seen at right in the photo below) user manual (ca. 1978).

Similar variable loudness schemes were, in fact, fairly commonplace on consumer hifi audio equipment starting in the early 1950s.

PS You know, I'm sure, that the very successful anti-coagulation drug hirudin (Hirulog), a thrombin inhibitor, had a leechy* genesis!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000291499390823U

___________
* As opposed to lychee, of course!

 

[Keith_W]

PS You know, I'm sure, that the very successful anti-coagulation drug hirudin (Hirulog), a thrombin inhibitor, had a leechy* genesis!

Very few people use Hirudin. The problem is that it is a polypeptide (protein) meaning that it has to be injected, it can not be taken orally. The modern recombinant version (Lepirudin) is used in niche cases, mostly when people can not tolerate other anticoagulants.

And BTW we doctors still use leeches. I am in the habit of playing practical jokes on our staff, so I once told my pharmacist that he needs to set aside a room in his pharmacy. He said "what for?". I said "it's for a leech farm, we are taking delivery of a million leeches next week. Do you have a leech farming manual?". All I got was an eye roll and a reminder it's not April 1st.

Then there was the time I tried to convince a new pharmacist that we are taking delivery of a dozen crates of gila monsters and we were going to milk gila monster venom and make our own GLP-1 agonist ...

Sorry for the OT.

 

[mhardy6647]

Very few people use Hirudin. The problem is that it is a polypeptide (protein) meaning that it has to be injected, it can not be taken orally. The modern recombinant version (Lepirudin) is used in niche cases, mostly when people can not tolerate other anticoagulants.

umm, yeah... do you know what I did (and still do, to some extent) for a living? I've never seen polypeptides, much less glycoproteins, as a problem, but rather as an opportunity. I am a blood coagulation guy from way back (having started by working, at least a bit, on human fibrinogen glycosylation with R. Reid Townsend a long, long time ago in his, and my, grad school days). Heck, I worked most of my career with the makers of the first (full length) recombinant human Factor VIII (which was a pretty insane place for a company to start, but start there they (Genetics Institute) did, with Baxter and Recombinate)... a long time ago now.
EDIT: I see that Recombinate is - finally - reaching the end of the trail.
I spent a lot of happy hours, and a few unhappy ones, on matters pertaining to it... and a bunch of other coagulation factors, as well, over the years.
But I digress...

 

[muslhead]

umm, yeah... do you know what I did (and still do, to some extent) for a living? I've never seen polypeptides, much less glycoproteins, as a problem, but rather as an opportunity. Heck, we made full length recombinant Factor VIII (which was a pretty insane place for a company to start, but start there they did, with Recombinate)... a long time ago now.

i dont, please share

 

[mhardy6647]

i dont, please share

I am a carbohydrate biochemist with a specific interest in the structure and function (biological roles) of glycoproteins. Spent most of my career in biotechnology process development, specifically in characterization and analytical development. Worked on numerous therapeutics for orphan diseases such as types A and B hemophilia, and a bunch of others, too.

I know more about sugars (albeit not from a nutritional standpoint!) than any normal person would ever want to.

 

[Salt]

umm, yeah... do you know what I did (and still do, to some extent) for a living? I've never seen polypeptides, much less glycoproteins, as a problem, but rather as an opportunity. I am a blood coagulation guy from way back (having started by working, at least a bit, on human fibrinogen glycosylation with R. Reid Townsend a long, long time ago in his, and my, grad school days). Heck, I worked most of my career with the makers of the first (full length) recombinant human Factor VIII (which was a pretty insane place for a company to start, but start there they (Genetics Institute) did, with Baxter and Recombinate)... a long time ago now.
EDIT: I see that Recombinate is - finally - reaching the end of the trail.
I spent a lot of happy hours, and a few unhappy ones, on matters pertaining to it... and a bunch of other coagulation factors, as well, over the years.
But I digress...

That CRISP-Thing might change a lot in the future ...

 

[mhardy6647]

That CRISP-Thing might change a lot in the future ...

Yeah, well, I am mostly retired at this point...

 

[muslhead]

I am a carbohydrate biochemist with a specific interest in the structure and function (biological roles) of glycoproteins. Spent most of my career in biotechnology process development, specifically in characterization and analytical development. Worked on numerous therapeutics for orphan diseases such as types A and B hemophilia, and a bunch of others, too.

I know more about sugars (albeit not from a nutritional standpoint!) than any normal person would ever want to.

interesting, thanks. I assume that includes sugar alcohols?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Comparing the RME Loudness controls using the ADI-2 software app to the Loudness button of 1970's is like:
Comparing blood-letting with leeches to cure disease versus modern day heart transplants and stent procedures.

The outcomes are quite different!

Critical care units use maggots for antibiotic resistant infections.