Harman To Acquire B&W, Denon, Polk And Marantz From Masimo In $350 Million Deal

[watchnerd]

Interesting article, I kind of agree with the points the writer makes...

Masimo Sells Sound United to Harman; Excited? Temper Your Enthusiasm

Masimo has announced the long-anticipated sale of Sound United to Harman Industries - a division of Samsung Electronics for $350 million

www.strata-gee.com

This is pretty bonkers:

"Kiani had a plan known as his “hospital-to-home” strategy and Sound United’s HEOS wireless technology was to be an important part of that initiative, as well as its strong partnership with the consumer market retailers facilitating end-user sales of a new series of consumer-targeted healthcare products."

Hey, buddy, how'd you like some Polk speakers to go with your continuous glucose monitor?

 

[Oddball]

Kind of difficult to get the points as they are all over the place. Car audio was the next big thing for a while and probably still is. But where is that leaving the audio brands in the HT space? Knowing that that all is just a rounding error on Samsung's balance sheet?

 

[watchnerd]

Kind of difficult to get the points as they are all over the place. Car audio was the next big thing for a while and probably still is. But where is that leaving the audio brands in the HT space? Knowing that that all is just a rounding error on Samsung's balance sheet?

Brands will be killed off. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, La Salle were once all independent car companies, later acquired by GM, and now all discontinued.

If I had to bet, I would bet they kill off Revel as a brand in favor of B&W.

 

[Palmer]

I live in Florida, and for the last 10-15 years there's less and less of interest in speakers, turntables, any sort of very good system in the home for listening to sound.
Bought a older Roland piano from a guy last week who seems to be a well off guitar player, who saw my Chapman Stick and said he had never seen one in person.
He was sort of amazed at the 4 turntables, the reel to reel and the good amount of recording gear, but at no point did he ask to hear the audio system - even just for one song.
So I would think that the audio equipment is really moving to rather expensive gear for people who are either still into it, and have the money to spend - or the couple of folks who have the space and desire to just show off. When I was a kid I was super exited to see and hear other peoples stereos when my parents brought me along, my grandkids these days don't seem to care about it, even when I play music they like.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Brands will be killed off. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, La Salle were once all independent car companies, later acquired by GM, and now all discontinued.

If I had to bet, I would bet they kill off Revel as a brand in favor of B&W.

Oldsmobile became part of General Motors circa 1907. I believe Pontiac and LaSalle were brands created by General Motors.

 

[Oddball]

Brands will be killed off. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, La Salle were once all independent car companies, later acquired by GM, and now all discontinued.

If I had to bet, I would bet they kill off Revel as a brand in favor of B&W.

I'd bet the other way. What Americans did is not what Koreans would do or think to do. And honestly these brands you are mentioning - really don't want to get into that discussion.

Even Arcam survived - at least till now - but yeah, would be worried about that. Revel is pretty safe as their market position is best in class, and not most expensive in class like B&W. There is definitively place for both in the market. Some people just like to splash on B&W - and admittedly they don't look bad.

 

[watchnerd]

I'd bet the other way. What Americans did is not what Koreans would do or think to do. And honestly these brands you are mentioning - really don't want to get into that discussion.

Even Arcam survived - at least till now - but yeah, would be worried about that. Revel is pretty safe as their market position is best in class, and not most expensive in class like B&W. There is definitively place for both in the market. Some people just like to splash on B&W - and admittedly they don't look bad.

I don't think their position as best in class is safe at all.

Harman already killed off the Revel Ultima Salon 2, which previously sold for $25K, and the rest of the Ultima line has been discontinued, with no replacement announced.

Meanwhile, B&W products get sold in Apple stores and in upscale audio specialists.

 

[Oddball]

Harman already killed off the Revel Ultima Salon 2, which previously sold for $25K, and the rest of the Ultima line has been discontinued, with no replacement announced.

Performa BE product line is amazing and has been reviewed really well. It is often on sale and can be great value. If I recall correctly, some members that had both Ultima Salon 2 and Be 328 were impressed by 328. Amir also reviewed them and the conclusion was:

"Needless to say, I am happy to recommend the Revel F328Be. If you want to buy a set of speakers and be done with it, you know what to get now!"

Revel F328Be Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel F328Be floor standing speaker. I purchased a single unit through our company (Madrona) with kind discount from Harman Sales (I asked for a review sample from the PR group but was told "don't call us, we will call you."). The retail cost...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The fact that you can get them under $15K on sale is even better.

I have their big center from Performa line C426 and could not be happier. A glowing review of C426 from both Erin and James Larson that are both top reviewers. The fact that I got it for less than $3K on sale does not take any of its value or performance away, just kept a bunch of cash in my pocket. James also reviewed smaller towers 226 and they passed with flying colours.

Does Revel really need a line above Performa BE? Perhaps yes, but not sure how many would venture there.

 

[watchnerd]

Performa BE product line is amazing and has been reviewed really well. It is often on sale and can be great value. If I recall correctly, some members that had both Ultima Salon 2 and Be 328 were impressed by 328. Amir also reviewed them and the conclusion was:

"Needless to say, I am happy to recommend the Revel F328Be. If you want to buy a set of speakers and be done with it, you know what to get now!"

Revel F328Be Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel F328Be floor standing speaker. I purchased a single unit through our company (Madrona) with kind discount from Harman Sales (I asked for a review sample from the PR group but was told "don't call us, we will call you."). The retail cost...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The fact that you can get them under $15K on sale is even better.

I have their big center from Performa line C426 and could not be happier. A glowing review of C426 from both Erin and James Larson that are both top reviewers. The fact that I got it for less than $3K on sale does not take any of its value or performance away, just kept a bunch of cash in my pocket. James also reviewed smaller towers 226 and they passed with flying colours.

Does Revel really need a line above Performa BE? Perhaps yes, but not sure how many would venture there.

This tells me Revel believes they can’t justify / sell a $25k speaker.

 

[techsamurai]

Brands will be killed off. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, La Salle were once all independent car companies, later acquired by GM, and now all discontinued.

If I had to bet, I would bet they kill off Revel as a brand in favor of B&W.

I was thinking the same - scaling down Revel's product lines. B&W is worth a lot as a brand name.

Arcam may also be merge with Marantz, Denon or streamline their product lines.

 

[amper42]

I was thinking the same - scaling down Revel's product lines. B&W is worth a lot as a brand name.

Arcam may also be merge with Marantz, Denon or streamline their product lines.

That's the problem with buying so many lines of audio gear. Knowing which brands to downsize and which you intend to grow. Having competing brands in the same price range is always counter intuitive. Which one did you put your best effort into? Which is simply selling on previous brand loyalty until it collapses?

 

[mhardy6647]

Brands will be killed off. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, La Salle were once all independent car companies, later acquired by GM, and now all discontinued.

If I had to bet, I would bet they kill off Revel as a brand in favor of B&W.

As Archie & Edith Bunker once sang...
Gee our old LaSalle ran great.
Those were the days.

 

[Oddball]

This tells me Revel believes they can’t justify / sell a $25k speaker.

IMO they are a great company with very competitive pricing and amazing products.

If we take another company that is fair in its disclosure, albeit more expensive - Perlisten - they are also clear what they give you as you keep paying significantly more for their towers. And it's not really that much more you are getting compared to the price increase - which is individual, so just IMO YMMV.. R7t is $5.5K listed, S7t $12K listed, S7t limited $15K (lol, that's listed for a speaker, not pair or two).

It is by now clear that I don't think that anybody can justify (at least not to me) a $25K speakers, even if for a pair. There are obviously more boutique brands that will charge arm and a leg for their products, yet trailing behind transparency, low distortion, great dispersion, and SPL that Perlistens or Revels offer for much more reasonable price.

 

[amper42]

IMO they are a great company with very competitive pricing and amazing products.

If we take another company that is fair in its disclosure, albeit more expensive - Perlisten - they are also clear what they give you as you keep paying significantly more for their towers. And it's not really that much more you are getting compared to the price increase - which is individual, so just IMO YMMV.. R7t is $5.5K listed, S7t $12K listed, S7t limited $15K (lol, that's listed for a speaker, not pair or two).

It is by now clear that I don't think that anybody can justify (at least not to me) a $25K speakers, even if for a pair. There are obviously more boutique brands that will charge arm and a leg for their products, yet trailing behind transparency, low distortion, great dispersion, and SPL that Perlistens or Revels offer for much more reasonable price.

I totally agree. The Revel F228Be and F328Be at retail were out of my comfort zone but when they go on sale for $6,000 a pair for F228Be and $11,000 a pair for F328Be it's a decent value proposition. Only crazy audio nuts pay this much for speakers and there are fewer of us every day.

What's really incredible is I can take a BMR Monitor, pair it with an RME ADI-2 DAC FS using the ADI-2 software and make it sound within 90% of what the F328Be offers in the next room. If you know how to properly use this tool you can make a pair of $1400 speakers sound so good it's hard to justify spending 4-7x more. And if you use the RME ADI-2 Loudness tools (with the ADI-2 software) with the Revel F228Be or F328Be it's incredible how easily you can tweak it surpassing all expectations.

 

[Oddball]

What's really incredible is I can take a BMR Monitor, pair it with an RME ADI-2 DAC FS using the ADI-2 software and make it sound within 90% of what the F328Be offers in the next room. If you know how to properly use this tool you can make a pair of $1400 speakers sound so good it's hard to justify spending 4-7x more. And if you use the RME ADI-2 Loudness tools (with the ADI-2 software) with the Revel F228Be or F328Be it's incredible how easily you can tweak it surpassing all expectations.

Interesting. Never tried that as gave up on my HTPC long time ago. But other things aside, BMR monitors will still be limited by SPL?

 

[watchnerd]

IMO they are a great company with very competitive pricing and amazing products.

If we take another company that is fair in its disclosure, albeit more expensive - Perlisten - they are also clear what they give you as you keep paying significantly more for their towers. And it's not really that much more you are getting compared to the price increase - which is individual, so just IMO YMMV.. R7t is $5.5K listed, S7t $12K listed, S7t limited $15K (lol, that's listed for a speaker, not pair or two).

It is by now clear that I don't think that anybody can justify (at least not to me) a $25K speakers, even if for a pair. There are obviously more boutique brands that will charge arm and a leg for their products, yet trailing behind transparency, low distortion, great dispersion, and SPL that Perlistens or Revels offer for much more reasonable price.

The B&W Nautilus sells for $100k

Nautilus - Iconic 120v floor-standing speakers | Bowers & Wilkins - United States

After almost 30 years, the Nautilus still defines high-end audio. Hand-built to order by a specialist team, nothing looks or sounds like Nautilus.

www.bowerswilkins.com

Is that justified?

*shrug*

Are the prices of Lamborghinis justified?

But from a branding POV, this tells me that B&W feels they can charge more for 'cachet' and design than Revel felt they could.

 

[amper42]

BMR monitors will still be limited by SPL?

I think this may be another audio myth? How this speaker can do 110dB while another is limited to 105dB? And how that is actually important?

I have been in rooms with speakers playing over 95dB and it's more than I want to subject my ears to for any duration. If your main use is music like mine I rarely reach 85dB for an extended period. If all you do is watch action movies with big explosions that may be a little different but not by much. The reason is those explosions are by definition noise - so if the speaker is not absolutely perfect for that 1-3sec period it's not a big deal to our ears as long as the driver is not damaged. The more I'm in this hobby the more I realize how we obsess over pretty much everything. If someone can actually hear a problem fix it. But if they are always looking for more excess headroom they never actually end up needing for regular listening it's a little crazy.

 

[Oddball]

I think you can do better than any B&W, including the Nautilus.

We were talking about passive speakers, yes there would be a different category for actives, and unfortunately they tend to cost more. Crossing the $10-15K line is where one would think of Genelec or Kii with the bass modules.

Lamborghini was never my taste, but could see both value and fun in $200K 911. Will sell for the same amount in 10 years, and will not need so much attention from the mechanics as Lambo will (even if Audi built).

 

[Oddball]

I think this may be another audio myth? How this speaker can do 110dB while another is limited to 105dB? And how that is actually important?

I have been in rooms with speakers playing over 95dB and it's more than I want to subject my ears to for any duration. If your main use is music like mine I rarely reach 85dB for an extended period. If all you do is watch action movies with big explosions that may be a little different but not by much. The reason is those explosions are by definition noise - so if the speaker is not absolutely perfect for that 1-3sec period it's not a big deal to our ears as long as the driver is not damaged. The more I'm in this hobby the more I realize how we obsess over pretty much everything. If someone can actually hear a problem fix it. But if they are always looking for more excess headroom they never actually end up needing for regular listening it's a little crazy.

I think we are on the same page, I just wanted to get the facts right. I do use and abuse my system mostly for HT, so SPL at 2-2.5M is what I do care about. Usually listening to -10dB to reference, but sometimes want to turn it up fully and also want the system to be specd that way so it is protected from the moments when you want to let it all out.

So 105dB would be reference in this case if you run the speakers large, but that would assume flat curve. So if you bump the bass by +10dB as lot of us do, that gives you 115dB peaks which is too much for anything passive to withstand at 2-2.5M. Then if you add the stress of routing LFE to your speakers as well which seems to be popular nowadays, you get the idea why SPL really matters to some.

 

[Music1969]

Compared to them being liquidated, for sure.

Dr Sean Olive resigned. Will be interesting how critical objective performance will be for JBL etc, going forward.
Or not.

We won't see the effects for at least 2 years. New products/product cycles