Hardware or Source Material

[sbsail9]

Hello –

The following is for context.
I am an old guy. I grew up in the days a Mac 225, AR3a, EPI, Phase Linear. I have only recently stopped working full time so I bought the following for my small office listening area, about 12x12.
Debut Carbon/Ortofon Blue
CA AXR100
Denon 600NE
KEF LS50
B&W 8” 300 watt Sub (sealed)
I mostly listen to orchestral, Steely Dan, Miles, Brubeck, Krall, Botti – you get the idea. I also am season holder for LA Phil and Hollywood Bowl so I know what “real” music sounds like.
My little system may not be to everyone’s taste but I find it fills my little space well.
Here is the quandary:
Like most, I am always thinking about the next “upgrade” for improved fidelity. Don’t need loud or to fill big space. However, I just purchased a half-speed (45 RPM) Brubeck and was absolutely astonished at the dynamic range and sound quality. I believe that what it is telling me is that with the right input the hardware I have is maximized.
Obviously, a $7K amp and equally expensive supporting components would be even better. But how much better? Is the investment in better source material a better use of funds? After all, that will always be available if the hardware is improved. You can buy a lot of $60-150 vinyl records (or CDs made from masters) for the 15 to $20K hardware cost.

 

[Mr. Widget]

All things being equal the electronics make the most subtle improvements or changes to ones system, but I am wondering how are you using this gear.
Why do you have both a Cambridge receiver and a Denon integrated amp? Are you using the Denon as a streaming DAC?

 

[Jim Taylor]

First things first: welcome to ASR!

I just purchased a half-speed (45 RPM) Brubeck and was absolutely astonished at the dynamic range and sound quality. I believe that what it is telling me is that with the right input the hardware I have is maximized.

With the right input, any hardware can be maximized ... or fried. But if the system that you have now provided you with astonishment at the dynamic range and sound quality of the Brubeck recording, wasn't it doing its job? I take it that you didn't slam the voice coil into the stops, right? There wasn't any protection circuit that activated, was there?

Sounds like you have a sweet setup, perfectly suited to the conditions you specified, which are ...

Don’t need loud or to fill big space.

Sit back and enjoy, my friend!

Jim

 

[Mr. Widget]

First things first: welcome to ASR!

Oh yeah, there's that.

 

[DVDdoug]

I just purchased a half-speed (45 RPM) Brubeck and was absolutely astonished at the dynamic range and sound quality.

A digital copy of the same master would be technically better. There is ALWAYS background noise on records whereas digital has a dead silent background. Digital has a more dynamic range capability, but producers/engineers rarely take full advantage of it.*

There could be some remaining tape noise from old analog masters, but it's not as bad as vinyl noise and that tape noise is added to the vinyl noise. The analog playback electronics also has some noise but it's not always audible, and since you don't need a high-gain phono preamp, you get less electronic noise than with vinyl.

The frequency response of records and the cartridge is not as flat as digital (over the audible range**). That's not a big deal because it can be tweaked with tone controls or EQ. But the deep bass is often rolled-off for better tracking and you really can't boost enough to restore that.

Sometimes there is audible distortion (tracking distortion?) on records.

Some people prefer the sound of vinyl and to them it's "better", but technically digital is better. Personally, I'll take MP3 (which is lossy compression) over vinyl. A good quality MP3 can often sound identical to the original CD (or high resolution original) in a proper blind listening test, and if there are audible compression artifacts they don't annoy me as much as vinyl clicks & pops.

B&W 8” 300 watt Sub (sealed)

I don't know anything about it but IMO, that's small for a "subwoofer". You probably can't get "realistic" bass that you can feel in your body. (Maybe you don't want to get THAT loud and realistic... I rarely listen at realistic levels, and I have nearby neighbors but I do sometimes like to over-boost the bass when I'm listening at more-reasonable levels.)

I also am season holder for LA Phil and Hollywood Bowl so I know what “real” music sounds like.

A HUGE part of what you hear at the philharmonic is the hall... The reverberation and reflected sound coming from all directions around you.

I don't listen to classical but I like to use the "hall" or "theater" settings on my home theater system to get some delayed reverb in the rear speakers and the "feel" of a larger space. That's somewhat "controversial" because I'm not listening "as intended" but I like it.

Like most, I am always thinking about the next “upgrade” for improved fidelity.

I mostly got over that when I got my 1st CD player! Several years later, adding (large) subwoofers made a big improvement, as did upgrading to surround sound. Some of the best sounding music I have is on concert DVDs with surround sound. (Dolby digital on DVDs is lossy compression*** but it sounds great! Some Blu-Ray audio formats are high-resolution lossless.)



* Usually we don't really want the full dynamics of an orchestra at home, but most modern recordings are overly dynamically compressed (IMO). See The Loudness War.

** Records can theoretically extend higher in frequency than CDs, but we can't hear that high and apparently most of that higher-frequency energy is noise and distortion if we could hear it.

*** Don't confuse lossy file compression (MP3 or Dolby AC3) with dynamic compression. MP3 actually has more dynamic range capability than CDs.

 

[Overseas]

Not Denon 600NE, please.
Try any other cheap good measuring amp like Fosi, Aiyima, Wiim instead.

 

[stoo23]

Digital has a more dynamic range capability, but producers/engineers rarely take full advantage of it

Yeah, damn sad and annoying that, isn't it !!?? ... Such (theoretical) possibilities, yet everyone seems to want to Cram / Limit everything to such a small dynamic Range these days,.. (although, that said), things Are slowly getting better since the 'Peak' of the Loudness Wars. .... Thankfully