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Harbeth speakers

Inner Space

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Take two speakers, one of which(A) just has good on axis response, and the other(B) has good on axis response and good off axis response; the latter(B) will be preferred by most listeners sitting directly on axis.

In a non-reflective room? Can you explain that? Or better still, point me to the research? I must have missed it.

To be clear, I have no objection to Toole's project - as an investigation into what normal consumers in normal rooms might value, it's terrific, and of clear commercial value to mass-market manufacturers. (And I would love to see his raw data.) But those on ASR are not normal consumers - they're a tiny subset of a tiny subset, and I'm mystified at the slavish devotion to a project clearly aimed elsewhere.
 

ahofer

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I look forward to better citations than I provided. However, I would summarize ASR's "slavish devotion" to.. differences/preferences which have been shown to survive in controlled testing. Even though it comes out unevenly in the forum dialogue, I think that's what's at bottom.
 

ahofer

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In a non-reflective room?
Whose living room is anechoic, or even close? As you and Alan Shaw have said, "real speakers in real rooms"
 

Inner Space

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Whose living room is anechoic, or even close? As you and Alan Shaw have said, "real speakers in real rooms"

My living rooms are not my listening rooms, and vice versa, which was my point, about being a subset of a subset. In most of my life I'm a totally normal Average Joe consumer, but not for the things I hold near and dear. Because yes - real speakers in real rooms are endlessly troublesome, so I have tried to go the extra mile with specialist rooms that are essentially anechoic - not 100% technically, but closer than anything outside a lab, and as good as most of those. For me, it's the best way to listen. I hear nothing that isn't on the recording. Honestly, it's wonderful.
 

Purité Audio

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Please post some acoustic measurements of the room, one seldom runs across an anechoic chamber in a domestic abode.
Keith
 

ahofer

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Please post some acoustic measurements of the room, one seldom runs across an anechoic chamber in a domestic abode.
Keith
Pictures would be a start. It's a sacrifice.
 

Inner Space

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Please post some acoustic measurements of the room ...
Pictures would be a start ...

I'll do both, with a caveat - the contractor I used on the last one had a relative (his wife's nephew, I think) who wanted to be involved as part of a PhD project. So we have photos and measurements every step of the way, but no one can use the data until the university has published the thesis. Or something. It seemed important to the kid, so I said yes. So next May, I think, if you're still interested.

I would take a phone pic, except I'm not there at the moment. You wouldn't see much except drapes. Imagine a block of rigid fiberglass absorbent 32' x 17' x 10'. Imagine (plan view) cutting a Y shape into it, each stroke 6' wide. You walk in up the stem; the chair is where the strokes meet; the speakers are at the far ends of the arms. A rectangle fore and aft of the chair is curtained off with thin drapes. That's all you would see. Weird, I know, but I felt impelled to follow a theory to a logical conclusion, and I'm enjoying the result.
 

helom

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Harbeth speakers are indeed overpriced and overrated, but I must admit their timbre sounds much closer to real instruments than the Revels I’ve owned and heard. JS…
 
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ThoFi

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I like my sound with the SHL5+ 40An and tube amp.
As far as I know the system FR follows the impedance curve of the speaker.
That means certain frequencies are now increased.
The sound is lively, engaging without fatiguing.
So is my taste of sound a „off-neutral system FR“?
(In comparison I didn’t like the sound with my Hypex Class D amp)
That means to me that I do not need a speaker with flat FR such as the overpriced Harbeth.
 

ahofer

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Harbeth speakers are indeed overpriced and overrated, but I must admit their timbre sounds much closer to real instruments than the Revels I’ve owned and heard. JS…
I've been wanting to do a side-by-side for ages, to understand how my tastes may deviate. I certainly prefer the Harbeths to KEF LS50W.
 

Frgirard

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I like my sound with the SHL5+ 40An and tube amp.
As far as I know the system FR follows the impedance curve of the speaker.
That means certain frequencies are now increased.
The sound is lively, engaging without fatiguing.
So is my taste of sound a „off-neutral system FR“?
(In comparison I didn’t like the sound with my Hypex Class D amp)
That means to me that I do not need a speaker with flat FR such as the overpriced Harbeth.
No one can listen for you and challenge your tastes
All speakers sold in audiophile stores are overpriced.
A Mackie 824, K+H O300, KH310, PSI Audio A21 ... offer or offered services that many audiophile speakers do not have for double the price.
 
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ThoFi

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The JBL 4309 shows a none flat FR with resonances. It shows good directivity.
What attributes makes a speaker fun to listen to?
 
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ThoFi

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Better, much cheaper options than the neutral flat Harbeths and tested and recommended from Amir:
KEF R3
Focal Aria 906
Revel M16
JBl 4309
Elac Debut Reference DBR-62
 
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helom

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Better, much cheaper options than the neutral flat Harbeths and tested and recommended from Amir:
KEF R3
Focal Aria 906
Revel M16
JBl 4309
Elac Debut Reference DBR-62

Lol. Have you actually heard any of these? With the exception of bass definition, the R3 and Aria 906 are nowhere close to the same league of Harbeth M30.1s and the like. The 906 is severely lacking in resolution and has a completely unnatural midrange coloration. The R3s have good resolution but the highs are like ice picks to the ears and the bass is of the “one-note” variety.

The Concerta Revels are better than the KEFs and Arias but they still have a somewhat unnatural, metallic midrange coloration and the tweeter is grainy.

I’m going out on a limb and supposing you haven’t actually heard a Harbeth speaker in the same system as the speakers you listed.

One problem with picking speakers by measurements alone is that smoothing of graphs hides the subtleties that you actually hear in listening.

You want a great inexpensive speaker that also measures quite well, and outperforms most of the speakers on your list in most areas? Try the Paradigm Premier 700F. A great value that measures well but actually sounds great for the money too.
 
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ThoFi

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If you are in the objektivst camp and believe in measurements these speakers must all sound the same (same as with amps). And if you believe that the FR measurements tells all about how the speaker will sound.
Everything else is what you subjectly imagine, you wish to hear. (e.g. Harbeth are sooo good because of the history, nostalgic look, the spreaded myth of the designer, other users,…)
This opinion represents ASR and the Harbeth User Group (HUG).
 

tuga

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If you are in the objektivst camp and believe in measurements these speakers must all sound the same (same as with amps). And if you believe that the FR measurements tells all about how the speaker will sound.
Everything else is what you subjectly imagine, you wish to hear. (e.g. Harbeth are sooo good because of the history, nostalgic look, the spreaded myth of the designer, other users,…)
This opinion represents ASR and the Harbeth User Group (HUG).

"if you believe that the FR measurements tells all about how the speaker will sound" then you are wrong. ;)
 
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