Hans is at it again

[Moderate Dionysianism]

It's like not going to the supermarket because they also sell food that you don't like

That would be a good analogy if supermarkets had elaborate algorithms tricking ppl into buying rat poison instead of the snacks they came for I know they play tricks too (like putting bread as far from the entrance as possible, spraying aromas etc.), but the sheer level of complexity that is at play in YT recommendations is what makes the difference IMO.

The more counter information is present, the more people will start to doubt. People use Youtube. They use it to find information (regardless of credibility).

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't YT effectively amplifying the videos with more shock value (i.e. more extreme / polarized reactions), then feeding ppl one such video after another since they are 'trending'? Wouldn't the science-based counter information always stand at disadvantage in an environment like this?

Also, I seriously doubt most viewers proactively search YT instead of following the recommendations bar or the auto-play feature. I don't think any broader pro-reason campaign is possible if the platform's goal isn't providing reliable information but maximizing engagement so you will ingest more advertising.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Then it doesn't really matter where you post it

Yes, it would seem not!
The internet is used by so many people for their source of information and news that no wonder people are dangerously ignorant!

 

[voodooless]

That would be a good analogy if supermarkets had elaborate algorithms tricking ppl into buying rat poison instead of the snacks they came for I know they play tricks too (like putting bread as far from the entrance as possible, spraying aromas etc.), but the sheer level of complexity that is at play in YT recommendations is what makes the difference IMO.

You still buy those snacks, although you know they are bad for you

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't YT effectively amplifying the videos with more shock value (i.e. more extreme / polarized reactions), then feeding ppl one such video after another since they are 'trending'? Wouldn't the science-based counter information always stand at disadvantage in an environment like this?

Yes, in a general sense that is absolutely true. But if we're talking about shock value, I guess the ASR videos should be quite well But in general, you're either being kept in a circle jerk of like-minded video's or if the message is counter to what Youtube likes you to watch, it might serve you with some differing views as well. And then don't forget that established sources will get priority as well, regardless of the validity of the content. It's a real jungle out there. In any case, If you're not on there at all, you're 100% sure people will not find you.

[Also, I seriously doubt most viewers proactively search YT instead of following the recommendations bar or the auto-play feature. I don't think any broader pro-reason campaign is possible if the platform's goal isn't providing reliable information but maximizing engagement so you will ingest more advertising.

Youtube is the largest search engine except for Google. Don't underestimate how much searching is done. I for one completely ignore the recommendations list for the most part. It's either crap or stuff I have already seen (seriously Youtube, why show me stuff I've already seen?). The problem is the search isn't any better in a lot of cases. So yes, I understand your point of view very well. But not participating in the whole charade doesn't really work either, does it...?

 

[Frank Dernie]

But not participating in the whole charade doesn't really work either, does it...?

I don't agree.
There are sources of properly researched, peer reviewed information from proper journals.
I consider the fact that people get their information from sources like Youtube and facebook to be one of the reasons so many people believe bollox, whether in HiFi or anything else.
I don't think populist politics or this sort of hifi subjectivism or all the stronly held belief not supported by fact could so widely exist and prosper without.

 

[voodooless]

I don't agree.
There are sources of properly researched, peer reviewed information from proper journals.
I consider the fact that people get their information from sources like Youtube and facebook to be one of the reasons so many people believe bollox, whether in HiFi or anything else.

Well, sure, you can shout all day long that such sources exist. But your shouting into a very empty space. Nobody will hear you.

I don't think populist politics or this sort of hifi subjectivism or all the stronly held belief not supported by fact could so widely exist and prosper without.

Sure. Now, what are you going to do about it? Hide?

You didn't answer my question BTW

 

[Frank Dernie]

Well, sure, you can shout all day long that such sources exist. But your shouting into a very empty space. Nobody will hear you.



Sure. Now, what are you going to do about it? Hide?

You didn't answer my question BTW

Yes.
We are completely f*cked and we are doing it to ourselves!
I'm not doing anything about it, why should I?

What I can do is not expose myself to misinformation by using Youtube for anything other than listening to the odd video clip.

It is a sad reflection on the human condition that in an age when more good information is readily available many humans don't want it.
Soon be dead.

 

[Jim Matthews]

I gave up on Hans An his echo chamber. It Cost valuable energie .

To be fair, his videos lead me to explore the RME product line.

That trail ended here at ASR.

 

[restorer-john]

Well, sure, you can shout all day long that such sources exist. But your shouting into a very empty space. Nobody will hear you.

Plenty of 'empty space' between the ears of most youtube viewers.

@Frank Dernie is ASR's resident Yoda, and, it behooves all to listen not what to whom he says, but to whom he says to it. (Yoda speak)

 

[sergeauckland]

I don't agree.
There are sources of properly researched, peer reviewed information from proper journals.
I consider the fact that people get their information from sources like Youtube and facebook to be one of the reasons so many people believe bollox, whether in HiFi or anything else.
I don't think populist politics or this sort of hifi subjectivism or all the stronly held belief not supported by fact could so widely exist and prosper without.

Exactly. There's no reason why ASR couldn't become, if not already, a trusted source of properly researched information. As to Peer Review, that seems to be done quite successfully if informally by the rest of us.

I am utterly dismayed that with the sum total of human knowledge now being available to anyone carrying a mobile telephone, such total misinformation dominates. We, as ASR, should have nothing to do with populist channels such as YouTube and establish our own. Number of views is of no concern, the truth should be.

S.

 

[Wombat]

I guess it is up to management to manage the membership focus.

 

[sergeauckland]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't YT effectively amplifying the videos with more shock value (i.e. more extreme / polarized reactions), then feeding ppl one such video after another since they are 'trending'? Wouldn't the science-based counter information always stand at disadvantage in an environment like this?

I am immensely suspicious of anything indicated as 'trending'. Since when has the taste of the public been an arbiter of quality?

Vox Populi, Vox Dei....I don't think so!

S.

 

[PierreV]

AFAIC, I use youtube exclusively through searches and channel subscriptions. For most product reviews, I read written reviews in a very small fraction of the time it takes me to watch videos.

Youtube is indeed full of trash, but there is also so much good stuff that several lifetimes would not be enough.

3Blue1Brown is a wonderful math channel for example. Nanohubtechtalks is another great channel. I could list dozens of them.
There are plenty of great teachers there as well and they have helped my daughter a lot. In terms of general science concept presentation and sometimes a bit more, veritasium is a nice channel.

There are tons of high-quality explanatory videos in my areas of expertise. I learned a lot from electronic repairs videos.

Youtube is a wonderful source of information, provided you use it actively imho.

 

[Plcamp]

rebuttal is good...specific response videos like that should be propagated.

 

[voodooless]

I'm not doing anything about it, why should I?

So you're entitled to complain (massive here). Isn't it rather selfish? Complaining that we're all f•cked, but then do nothing? And yes, I'm vastly exaggerating here, the mere fact that you have 5k post here proves you do care! But you get my drift. Of course, you can choose your battles. I'm not making any Youtube videos either That doesn't mean I can't support it if others do.

It is a sad reflection on the human condition that in an age when more good information is readily available many humans don't want it.
Soon be dead.

Keeping it that way won't solve anything.

To be fair, his videos lead me to explore the RME product line.

That trail ended here at ASR.

See, the more ways there are for people to find ASR, the better. If that means Youtube videos bring in flocks of people, I'm all for that.

We, as ASR, should have nothing to do with populist channels such as YouTube and establish our own. Number of views is of no concern, the truth should be.

"Should be" is irrelevant in the real world as you and many others have pointed out by now. Views are the next best thing. By no means perfect, but at least you know people get to see different information. what they then do with it is their business.

 

[Soundstage]

Hi guys, when did our beloved Hans dislike a product for the last time?

 

[Vini darko]

Youtube is wonderful tool. Like all tools it's effectiveness is determined by the user.

 

[Soniclife]

I haven't watched the video, nor will I, but my totally prejudiced view is that there's precious little of value on Youtube, and what there is, is tainted by association just by being on the same platform with the charlatans.

A 'normal' person interested in the subject can't easily tell who's lying and who's truthful, so either ends up believing the lies, or ignoring the truth.

That's why I was somewhat dismayed to see ASR videos going onto YouTube rather then being hosted on an ASR server. A greater number of views from YouTube is no reason to risk being associated with the rubbish.

S

The extension of this line of though is that ASR forum should not be on the web, because so much of it is awful, probably just as bad as YT, and it could not be a HiFi magazine because they are almost all awful as well. Modern platforms have made it easier and almost entirely reduced the barrier to entry, and I'm sure the total amount of quality has gone up, just nothing like as fast as the noise level sadly. My view is everything is biased drivel unless the creator puts some effort into explaining why they should be trusted, that's probably been the correct approach throughout history.

 

[FooYatChong]

Hi guys, when did our beloved Hans dislike a product for the last time?

Remember he didn't like the Pi4.

 

[JSmith]

Remember he didn't like the Pi4.

Well that says it all... who wouldn't "like" a Pi4 delivering unmolested 0's and 1's?



JSmith

 

[VintageFlanker]

Hi guys, when did our beloved Hans dislike a product for the last time?

Like many reviewers: it most likely never happened.

And their defence has always been the same: "That's because I only review products that I like in the first place."