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"Hands On" with the Klippel Nearfield Scanner

Blumlein 88

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Two questions I think others will have.

One is which microphone are you using? I seem to have read it, but am drawing a blank.

Another is do you run into any limitations or issues should you run the Klippel microphone too close to the walls and how close would that have to be when it becomes problematic?
 
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hardisj

hardisj

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Two questions I think others will have.

One is which microphone are you using? I seem to have read it, but am drawing a blank.

Another is do you run into any limitations or issues should you run the Klippel microphone too close to the walls and how close would that have to be when it becomes problematic?


I don't recall off the top of my head. I believe I have posted it somewhere else... seems like I posted the calibration sheet in my NFS thread. I'll have to dig the box out when I get home (if I remember).


Nope. No issues with the wall.
 

jtwrace

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I don't recall off the top of my head. I believe I have posted it somewhere else... seems like I posted the calibration sheet in my NFS thread. I'll have to dig the box out when I get home (if I remember).
Prob one of these G.R.A.S., right?
 

puppet

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Great work as always Erin. Can the NFS render a 3D balloon polar?
 

MZKM

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Great work as always Erin. Can the NFS render a 3D balloon polar?
Amir has posted them before, so yes.
index.php
 
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hardisj

hardisj

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Great work as always Erin. Can the NFS render a 3D balloon polar?

Absolutely. I have posted a couple GIFs. Here's an example from my Dutch & Dutch 8c review:
A cardioid speaker - like the Dutch & Dutch 8c is designed to not be omnidirectional above a certain frequency, and in the case of the 8c that frequency is 100Hz. Why would this be useful? Well, remember, the 8c features subwoofers on the rear of the speaker. These subwoofers depend on boundary reinforcement in order for the response to extend as low as possible in frequency. The issue, typically, would be rear-wall reflections. If the 8c speaker had the upper midbass and lower midrange frequencies radiating backwards then there would be a high degree (no pun intended) of sound traveling rearward only to be reflected off the rear wall and back to the front of the speaker causing comb filtering in these lower frequencies. In terms of sound, this can (and typically does) result in marred tonality, impact and imaging of the mid-to-low frequencies at the listening position. The 8c claims to have “constant directivity” above 100Hz; something it does through its cardioid design.


How well does this actually work, though? Well, let’s take a look at the typical response of a generic studio monitor at 200Hz. The below graphic is a plot of the sound field of said speaker at 200Hz. This was generated using Klippel’s Near-Field Scanner and Visualization module. The story here is the sound is a big ball of energy, radiating in all directions. In front (illustrated by the red arrow), backwards, up and down. This energy is all practically the same SPL, too. Nothing new here. Typical of a standard monopole speaker.
Generic%20Directivity%20Balloon%20%28Studio%20Monitor%29%20at%20200Hz.png



Now, let’s look at the response of the Dutch & Dutch 8c at 200Hz, below. What we see here is in stark contrast to the above. The first thing that stands out is there is practically zero sound radiating backwards (opposite of the red arrow). And what energy is back there is roughly 10-15dB down in level relative to what is firing forward.
Dutch%20%26%20Dutch%208c%20Directivity%20Balloon%20at%20200Hz.png



What does this mean? This means the 8c is a very well designed cardioid speaker. The manufacturer claims as much. And this data backs it up.
Just for fun, I went another step and have provided a gif of the sound radiation at varying frequencies below. A few notes about this gif:
  • Look how the response is completely omnidirectional at 50Hz but practically all forward firing by 150Hz and by 200Hz is forward firing.
  • You can see there is a mismatch in directivity in the crossover region (as illustrated by the balloon shape not being quite spherical at 2000Hz). This is also seen in the CTA-2034 data set.

Directivity-Balloon.gif
 

Blaspheme

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Thank you. It was great to see your Klippel in action. Also cool that you can do taller floor-standers by laying them on their side.

Very funny when you pointed up in the air for north after changing the orientation vector btw. One with the machine, you have become.
 
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hardisj

hardisj

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Very funny when you pointed up in the air for north after changing the orientation vector btw. One with the machine, you have become.

:D

I was thinking more in terms of looking at a map. Thus, Warkwyn is "up" from Alabama. :D
 

Samps

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What happens if you use less mic positions? I'm wondering if a few hundred positions would be good enough for what we're doing with these results. It would be interesting to measure the same speaker with 500 positions vs 2000 and see if the differences would be meaningful. For us anyhow, I understand the need for the high-resolution for an R&D project.
 

jtwrace

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What happens if you use less mic positions? I'm wondering if a few hundred positions would be good enough for what we're doing with these results. It would be interesting to measure the same speaker with 500 positions vs 2000 and see if the differences would be meaningful. For us anyhow, I understand the need for the high-resolution for an R&D project.
I'll always take more quality data rather than less. What "we" are doing is quite important to have the highest quality resolution.
 
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hardisj

hardisj

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What happens if you use less mic positions? I'm wondering if a few hundred positions would be good enough for what we're doing with these results. It would be interesting to measure the same speaker with 500 positions vs 2000 and see if the differences would be meaningful. For us anyhow, I understand the need for the high-resolution for an R&D project.

I've done this out of curiosity. Generally speaking, the more measurement points, the higher the accuracy. Not just accuracy of a single measurement line (I.e, on-axis) but between points in space. Remember, with the NFS, you're trying to identify the entire sound field; not just a few points in space (the CTA-2034 is a subset of the entire sound field, broken down in to 70 points in space).

The spec has some guidance on measurement points needed for different speaker types:
http://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/kli...D_System/PDF/C8 Near Field Scanner System.pdf
 

Samps

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I understand that more mic positions will result in better accuracy, but is the juice worth the squeeze. Looks like Erin has done some testing with this and that's nice to hear. For us readers, more accurate measurements are awesome, but at the expense of the testers time. If you can test more speakers more rapidly with less mic positions and still get an acceptable set of results then we all win in my opinion. Or the same amount of speaker tests but more youtube content would be great also. Just my thoughts, not trying to knock what you're doing. I'll take what I can get. Thanks!
 
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