Hagerman Baritone Tube Buffer

[Barrelhouse Solly]

Sounds like it might be interesting for amplified harmonica although I've used 12AU7s in the preamp section of guitar amps. For overdriven harp it gives you a fatter sound.

 

[Blumlein 88]

5k ohm output impedance would also roll off the treble. Where the roll off begins depends upon the capacitance of the cable and length. Probably not an issue in a couple meters or less. Into a low input impedance like 10 k ohm you'll get a lowering of maximum volume in this case of about 3.5 db.

I'd ask what do you hope for this tube buffer to accomplish for you? Almost surely better ways to do it.

 

[SIY]

I read here it has 5k Ohm output impedance?

So it's exactly the opposite of a buffer.

As a long-time tube guy, I have to say that this is the silliest product category not involving accessories or wires.

 

[olds1959special]

5k ohm output impedance would also roll off the treble. Where the roll off begins depends upon the capacitance of the cable and length. Probably not an issue in a couple meters or less. Into a low input impedance like 10 k ohm you'll get a lowering of maximum volume in this case of about 3.5 db.

I'd ask what do you hope for this tube buffer to accomplish for you? Almost surely better ways to do it.

I guess I’m trying to get the sound of a tube pre without actually having one, since I don’t always want to be using a tube pre. I will use short 1ft and 2ft solid silver conductor cables. I can use this in either of my systems to have a switchable tube effect. If I don’t like it I can return it.

 

[JayGilb]

So it's exactly the opposite of a buffer.

As a long-time tube guy, I have to say that this is the silliest product category not involving accessories or wires.

The same company also sells interconnect and power cable burn-in devices, so they are well rounded in the snake oil category.

 

[olds1959special]

The same company also sells interconnect and power cable burn-in devices, so they are well rounded in the snake oil category.

I noticed that. Is Stereophile snake oil too, then? I have actually read some favorable reviews of Jim’s tube phono stages and headphone amps, but I too can’t understand the purpose of a power cable burn-in device!

Industry Profile: Jim Hagerman of Hagerman Audio Labs

www.stereophile.com

 

[raindance]

I guess I’m trying to get the sound of a tube pre without actually having one, since I don’t always want to be using a tube pre. I will use short 1ft and 2ft solid silver conductor cables. I can use this in either of my systems to have a switchable tube effect. If I don’t like it I can return it.

A proper tube preamp has a gain stage (what this is) plus a buffer (what this is missing)... The buffer lowers output impedance...

 

[raindance]

Your system is probably the worst possible use case as far as impedance matching is concerned.

 

[kemmler3D]

@olds1959special I won't try to talk you out of tube gear or other equipment that changes the FR and distortion... there are plenty of other folks here who will do it for me.

However, I will give you cheap shortcut to finding the gear that produces the sound you want.

Basically, my advice is to experiment with DSP before you spend money on gear, for one simple reason, which is that messing with DSP is free and gear is not. DSP can do a decent job approximating the sound of these types of boxes.

You can figure out exactly what distortion profile and frequency response you want by using EQAPO on windows in conjunction with @pkane 's PKHarmonic. EQAPO has all the tools you need to edit the frequency response, you can also use PeaceEQ as a simplified interface for it.

PKHarmonic: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ing-beta-test-of-pkharmonic-vst-plugin.19063/

AFAIK this doesn't do *dynamic* distortion the way tube gear does, but you can start to get a feel for which harmonics you like and how much. This will cost you all of zero dollars and a couple hours. Once you find a tweaked sound that you enjoy and want to commit to, you can go out and find the gear that measures closest to your preferred THD and EQ.

 

[JayGilb]

I noticed that. Is Stereophile snake oil too, then? I have actually read some favorable reviews of Jim’s tube phono stages and headphone amps, but I too can’t understand the purpose of a power cable burn-in device!

Industry Profile: Jim Hagerman of Hagerman Audio Labs

www.stereophile.com

The purpose is to lighten your wallet.

 

[egellings]

I bought this as an alternative to changing my pre-amp to a tube pre. I will use it with a dac into one of the inputs of my pre-amp (Schiit Saga S.)

Baritone - Vacuum Tube Buffer

BARITONE is a vacuum tube buffer designed to warm up your digital audio. The 12AU7 operates at proper high voltage delivering huge headroom and low distortion. Add that tube magic and impart a vintage feel to your tone! Specifications 10Hz to 35kHz bandwidth (-3dB) 15Vrms output voltage (HI) -2...

hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com

I'm trying to understand more about this product. Will it sound as good as having a proper tube pre-amp?

What that 8-pin DIP doing in there? Also, if the tube is just configured as a cathode follower, it will very little if any effect on the sound.

 

[Emlin]

I find the "warm" sound tepid.

 

[olds1959special]

The Hagerman tube buffer arrived.

Initial impression: I like the sound. I'm using it in my ELAC setup and it's warming the sound nicely, adding slight tube distortion, bloom, and increasing mid bass. I liked the +4dB setting (third notch) at first but then lowered to the 0db setting for less warmth. I think the 0dB setting sounds transparent enough I would want to try it in my other system. This sounds better than the Maverick TubeMagic D1 Plus tube buffer I used to have.

There is slight loss of fidelity but what's added is a taste of the holographic imaging of tubes.

 

[olds1959special]

Using it in my main system now. It's rolled with a Tung Sol reissue 12AU7. I'm using this out of the XLR outputs (converted to single ended) of my DAC, into one of the inputs of my pre-amp. This way I can use the tube buffer (or not) as needed.

I find the tube buffer warms my signal taking the edge off digital audio.

 

[DVDdoug]

I find the tube buffer warms my signal taking the edge off digital audio.

The important thing is that you like the sound! It's your music and your setup for your enjoyment!

I don't know what "warm" or "edge" means. I used to think warmth is a mid-bass boost but some people mean slight "pleasing" distortion so I don't use that word anymore... I try to say what I mean in terms of noise, distortion, and frequency response. Or I might say something about frequency response that's clearly understood like "boosted bass" or "rolled-of highs", etc.

There are obviously better ways to control/adjust the bass but distortion isn't as easy to dial-in. Fortunately, the concept of high fidelity is low (inaudible) distortion, most listeners prefer low distortion, and most modern electronics delivers low distortion.

 

[olds1959special]

The important thing is that you like the sound! It's your music and your setup for your enjoyment!

I don't know what "warm" or "edge" means. I used to think warmth is a mid-bass boost but some people mean slight "pleasing" distortion so I don't use that word anymore... I try to say what I mean in terms of noise, distortion, and frequency response. Or I might say something about frequency response that's clearly understood like "boosted bass" or "rolled-of highs", etc.

There are obviously better ways to control/adjust the bass but distortion isn't as easy to dial-in. Fortunately, the concept of high fidelity is low (inaudible) distortion, most listeners prefer low distortion, and most modern electronics delivers low distortion.

I have it set up so I can enjoy the precise sound of a solid state setup, or switch on the buffer and enjoy the tube sound depending on my mood. To me, the tube creates a wider, fatter sound with some added harmonic energy, and some distortion that I think is mostly 2nd order.
It's lower fidelity I suppose but it seems to take the edge off a very clean sound which reduces my listener fatigue, (maybe partially because it's rolling off the highs and boosting mid bass?). The +4dB setting seems to sound the best. It's sensitive to tube rolling. It comes with a Mullard re-issue 12AU7 that's not as bright as the Tung Sol.

 

[SIY]

To me, the tube creates a wider, fatter sound with some added harmonic energy, and some distortion that I think is mostly 2nd order.

It would be interesting to see what you hear when you don't know if the gizmo is on or off.

Dirty secret: our sensitivity to distortion is not very good.

Second Dirty Secret: Tubes don't give a "warm" sound despite current synesthetic legend ("Well, they're warm and they glow, so they make warm, glowing sound"). Back in the day, the sound of tube gear was described (by Gordon Holt, no less) as "bright" and "forward."

Third Dirty Secret: 12AU7 has high levels of third and fifth order distortion, which likely accounts for the Second Dirty Secret.

 

[JayGilb]

Second Dirty Secret: Tubes don't give a "warm" sound despite current synesthetic legend ("Well, they're warm and they glow, so they make warm, glowing sound"). Back in the day, the sound of tube gear was described (by Gordon Holt, no less) as "bright" and "forward."

Thanks for my word of the day. I enjoy finding a word I have never used before and to discover the meaning.

 

[olds1959special]

It would be interesting to see what you hear when you don't know if the gizmo is on or off.

Dirty secret: our sensitivity to distortion is not very good.

Second Dirty Secret: Tubes don't give a "warm" sound despite current synesthetic legend ("Well, they're warm and they glow, so they make warm, glowing sound"). Back in the day, the sound of tube gear was described (by Gordon Holt, no less) as "bright" and "forward."

Third Dirty Secret: 12AU7 has high levels of third and fifth order distortion, which likely accounts for the Second Dirty Secret.

I'm pretty sure I would have an idea if it's on or off, especially when it's in the +4dB position, because it fattens and saturates the sound. I think of it as it harmonic saturation which to me is "warmth".

I really do love my system without the tube so using it is just for fun. I'm not a fan of distortion generally but this little thing definitely can add something to music. I find it works well to "enhance" some recordings more so than others. (I do wonder if the fun factor will go away over time and I'll get bored of this, though?) It's just not practical to go the full tube pre-amp route right now (I was looking at the PrimaLuna EVO 100 pre since it has two sets of outputs and a remote), because I don't like using any tubes with home theater, and my setup is for both music and movies/tv. So the tube buffer idea seemed to make sense.

I'm actually trying to get away from tubes. I used to own more tube gear and had a small collection of tubes but got tired of the distortion and all the tube rolling options so I sold all of it. I only kept my tube headphone amp. But somehow the tube gear crept back into my speaker system. I guess I'm a fan of tubes. I like 1950's audio recordings a lot too.

 

[DVDdoug]

In a good design tube rolling won't make a difference, as long as the tubes are the correct ones and in-spec. A good design is immune to normal part variations. Otherwise it would be impossible to get production consistency, especially with solid state where it's not so easy to swap/select transistors or MOSFETs. (Solid state devices also have variations/tolerances.)

And since tubes age, performance would change over time if the circuit isn't immune to normal normal variations/aging. (Of course, once the tube changes so much that it's no longer in-spec, you can expect performance to suffer.)

Tube Rolling: Does it Make a Difference? In Amir's experiment it did NOT make an audible difference with this particular device, even though it was not a "good design".