Hagerman Baritone Tube Buffer

[olds1959special]

I bought this as an alternative to changing my pre-amp to a tube pre. I will use it with a dac into one of the inputs of my pre-amp (Schiit Saga S.)

Baritone - Vacuum Tube Buffer

BARITONE is a vacuum tube buffer designed to warm up your digital audio. The 12AU7 operates at proper high voltage delivering huge headroom and low distortion. Add that tube magic and impart a vintage feel to your tone! Specifications 10Hz to 35kHz bandwidth (-3dB) 15Vrms output voltage (HI) -2...

hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com

I'm trying to understand more about this product. Will it sound as good as having a proper tube pre-amp?

 

[Prana Ferox]

Step 1 is going to be defining what 'good' sound you are hoping to get putting this in your signal chain.

 

[olds1959special]

Step 1 is going to be defining what 'good' sound you are hoping to get putting this in your signal chain.

I like the warmth and harmonic saturation tubes can provide for older music. I was thinking of using this with my backup dac as an alternative way to play music, and if it sounds really good, maybe use it all the time with my main dac.

 

[Jim Taylor]

At that price, you can just try it and see. If you don't like it, you can resell it without losing too much.

Jim

 

[Prana Ferox]

What is the source to your DAC? Could you just apply some filters to get 'warmth' / low mid bloom and 2nd order distortion upstream?

 

[stoo23]

I like the warmth and harmonic saturation tubes can provide for older music

Interesting,.. just What style / Era of Older music are you listening to, that requires in effect 'Re-Warming'

Why do you feel the 'Older' (theoretically Warm/er), music has Lost that 'Warmth' ??
If the Original Recordings had pleasant seemingly desirable 'Warmth & Harmonic Saturation', which element of your current system do you believe has Removed same ??
I mean (Hopefully) your current Digital equipment, will simply be Reproducing the Source material, 'accurately', Without added undue 'Colouration' ??

Coming from years of 'Live' and 'Studio' engineering, I honestly don't sit here listening to my collection of Older music,.. wishing in Any Way that it was more Harmonically Saturated, !!,.. or 'Warmer', I'm simply enjoying hearing it Played-Back, (as it was recorded) and whilst when listening to material I recorded for various Artists may cause me to (with Hindsight), think/wish I had done 'this or that' prior to it being finally sent home with them, I do Not Wish any of it would be more Saturated etc,.. it is (in effect), What it is,.. Then,... and Now,....

In some ways this 'post' effect craze is a bit similar to the 'Loudness Wars' ... "Let's just make it Louder and Re-Equalize it,...it will sound great" scenario,..

Please understand I am Not Criticising your intent or choice 'specifically', just intrigued by it, as way back, (in my 2nd job), selling HiFi towards the end of the Mad HiFi 'boom' era,.. there weren't endless numbers of Add-On devices to 'Colour' the sound coming from your newly purchased system, yet these days,..it almost seems 'de rigueur' ??

Plus, I Can't agree that "at that price, if it doesn't work you could sell it",...etc,.. at that Price, it is IMHO a rather expensive and possibly futile experiment, that, as a possible 'buyer' I would be questioning Why the Seller is Selling it,... lol I mean it is somewhat different deciding to purchase one yourself from the manufacturer etc ... so why is this Person selling his unit ??

 

[olds1959special]

Interesting,.. just What style / Era of Older music are you listening to, that requires in effect 'Re-Warming'

Why do you feel the 'Older' (theoretically Warm/er), music has Lost that 'Warmth' ??
If the Original Recordings had pleasant seemingly desirable 'Warmth & Harmonic Saturation', which element of your current system do you believe has Removed same ??
I mean (Hopefully) your current Digital equipment, will simply be Reproducing the Source material, 'accurately', Without added undue 'Colouration' ??

Coming from years of 'Live' and 'Studio' engineering, I honestly don't sit here listening to my collection of Older music,.. wishing in Any Way that it was more Harmonically Saturated, !!,.. or 'Warmer', I'm simply enjoying hearing it Played-Back, (as it was recorded) and whilst when listening to material I recorded for various Artists may cause me to (with Hindsight), think/wish I had done 'this or that' prior to it being finally sent home with them, I do Not Wish any of it would be more Saturated etc,.. it is (in effect), What it is,.. Then,... and Now,....

In some ways this 'post' effect craze is a bit similar to the 'Loudness Wars' ... "Let's just make it Louder and Re-Equalize it,...it will sound great" scenario,..

Please understand I am Not Criticising your intent or choice 'specifically', just intrigued by it, as way back, (in my 2nd job), selling HiFi towards the end of the Mad HiFi 'boom' era,.. there weren't endless numbers of Add-On devices to 'Colour' the sound coming from your newly purchased system, yet these days,..it almost seems 'de rigueur' ??

Plus, I Can't agree that "at that price, if it doesn't work you could sell it",...etc,.. at that Price, it is IMHO a rather expensive and possibly futile experiment, that, as a possible 'buyer' I would be questioning Why the Seller is Selling it,... lol I mean it is somewhat different deciding to purchase one yourself from the manufacturer etc ... so why is this Person selling his unit ??

I like 20’s music through tubes, they soften the crackles and pops!

Actually, I think my system is just a little fatigueing the way it is. It stimulates my tinnitus a bit. That could also be why I’m trying this.

 

[stoo23]

I like 20’s music through tubes, they soften the crackles and pops!

Hmmm, really ??, ... I'm not sure How !!,..
Ahhh yes damn Tinnitus,... Mine does seem to be slightly worse than it was although I'm not sure my playback system is the cause ...... might have to start listening to Discreet music and classical ... gently via headphones

 

[Blumlein 88]

I bought this as an alternative to changing my pre-amp to a tube pre. I will use it with a dac into one of the inputs of my pre-amp (Schiit Saga S.)

Baritone - Vacuum Tube Buffer

BARITONE is a vacuum tube buffer designed to warm up your digital audio. The 12AU7 operates at proper high voltage delivering huge headroom and low distortion. Add that tube magic and impart a vintage feel to your tone! Specifications 10Hz to 35kHz bandwidth (-3dB) 15Vrms output voltage (HI) -2...

hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com

I'm trying to understand more about this product. Will it sound as good as having a proper tube pre-amp?

It only has truly flat response between 100 hz and 3500 hz. I think an EQ app would be better if that is your cup of tea mate.

You seem to continue looking for the magic. The magic which is a myth. If you prefer EQ and personalized distortion then okay. This is a very inconvenient way to get that.

You want a real tube pre, well get a tube pre. I'll let you in on a secret......most tube pres are pretty transparent. It is tube amps which have a character. Or in this case, something designed to be not transparent. Want to help your tinnitus, do some EQ sloping down about 1 db per octave. Say start at 20 hz, and have it slope down by 10 db at 20 khz. That will get you close. A nice even change that you can easily learn to acclimate to and hear what is really going on otherwise.

 

[olds1959special]

I changed my dac filter to linear fast roll off (just to get a baseline) and set my speakers to flat (tweeter and midrange contour controls). My tweeter was boosted and midrange recessed so I'm sure that was contributing to fatigue. I still want to try the tube buffer, but it will most likely go with my secondary dac or maybe from the XLR outputs of my main dac, (converting to single ended) so I can always go back to a solid state only setup by changing inputs on my pre-amp. I’m not exactly sure what to expect but once I hear it I’m sure I’ll know if I like it or not. It will be a fun experiment.

 

[DonR]

I added a Grant Fidelity (Yaqin clone) tube buffer to my system for the same purpose. I never really felt it added much except for a 3db drop in signal level.

 

[olds1959special]

I added a Grant Fidelity (Yaqin clone) tube buffer to my system for the same purpose. I never really felt it added much except for a 3db drop in signal level.

Interesting product. Why did you decide to keep using it? The Hagerman has a switch for gain settings. -2, 0, +4, +8 dB.

 

[DonR]

Interesting product. Why did you decide to keep using it? The Hagerman has a switch for gain settings. -2, 0, +4, +8 dB.

I still have it but don't use it much. I might get around to measuring it one day to confirm my suspicions that it provides no audible benefit.

 

[olds1959special]

I still have it but don't use it much. I might get around to measuring it one day to confirm my suspicions that it provides no audible benefit.

have you tried changing the tubes?

 

[raindance]

I like the warmth and harmonic saturation tubes can provide for older music. I was thinking of using this with my backup dac as an alternative way to play music, and if it sounds really good, maybe use it all the time with my main dac.

Typically a tube buffer (cathode follower) adds only odd harmonic distortion and no"warmth" at all. I'll take a look and see what this item actually is.

 

[raindance]

I looked at the item and it has gain, so it probably isn't a cathode follower. There's a chance it will add some "bloom" if the tube is providing the gain... However they state it is "low distortion" which kinda defeats the object. I notice that the output impedance is not stated - it is probably quite high.

 

[DonR]

have you tried changing the tubes?

Several times with "widely regarded" tubes. No change.

 

[olds1959special]

I looked at the item and it has gain, so it probably isn't a cathode follower. There's a chance it will add some "bloom" if the tube is providing the gain... However they state it is "low distortion" which kinda defeats the object. I notice that the output impedance is not stated - it is probably quite high.

I read here it has 5k Ohm output impedance? What would that do?

(https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/can-digital-get-to-vinyl-sound-and-at-what-price.37142/page-5)

 

[raindance]

I read here it has 5k Ohm output impedance? What would that do?

(https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/can-digital-get-to-vinyl-sound-and-at-what-price.37142/page-5)

That would be ok for a lot of Class AB amplifiers that have input impedance of 47k and up but it could be non optimal for many Class D amps. Subwoofers also come to mind as low input impedance devices that would add loading.

 

[olds1959special]

That would be ok for a lot of Class AB amplifiers that have input impedance of 47k and up but it could be non optimal for many Class D amps. Subwoofers also come to mind as low input impedance devices that would add loading.

It will go in between my dac and pre-amp, (Schiit Saga S, Input Impedance: 10 kohms) or maybe before my Fosi ZA3.