Gustard X18 Review (Stereo DAC)

[Progronom]

Up and down keys?

I don't know. I don't have this dac yet. That's why I'm asking.

 

[Alt-Wrong]

The same dropouts are an issue with the Topping D90se. It has to do with the choice of input receiver they’re using, it’s a hardware issue, and there is no workaround. It’s entirely dependent on the coaxial hardware of the source you’re connecting to the DAC.

I had this issue while connecting my Oppo UDP-203 to the D90se via Coax. The only way I could resolve the problem was to buy an HDMI extractor (the Kanex Pro HAECOAX) and connect the Oppo to the Topping with the extractor instead of using the Oppo’s native Coax jack. It works fine and sounds great, but for other devices without HDMI outputs I think you’re SOL, unfortunately. :/

hi srkbear-
i’ve been using a kanex haecoax with my bdp-103 and apple tv3 since jan.‘17, mostly for movie watching.
and feeding either an auralic vega or lavry da11 from its coax out.
it’s a solid little unit, and with >5yrs of almost daily use, pretty reliable.
in 5.1 mode, and watching/listening to surround-sound movies thru it, you only hear the left and right channels- no center/dialog sound.
you have to switch it to 2.0 mode, which converts surround (e.g., dolby, dts, hd-ma, etc.) to two channel (limited to no higher than 48khz), and is how i watch/listen to most movies with it.
though some, especially concerts (e.g., david gilmour-remember that night), will offer a 2-channel LPCM option in addition to surround, and the 5.1 kanex option will allow the full hi-res 2-channel sound to come thru.
some good kanex info in this article…

Fresh From the Bench: KanexPro HAECOAX HDMI Audio De-Embedder

This review explains the merits of the KanexPro HAECOAX, an HDMI audio de-embedder, which extracts the PCM datastream from your players HDMI output and feeds the datastream to an S/PDIF output at the disc’s full resolution. Gary Galo discovered the device some time ago, enabling him to extract...

audioxpress.com

…including this bit…
“John Siau at Benchmark Media Systems notes that his measurements show the unit to be bit-transparent in the 5.1-channel mode. One “undocumented” feature is that 16-bit sources are re-mapped to 24-bit, as indicated by the front-panel display on my Benchmark DAC2 DX”.

cheers

PS re: your Big Star avatar- i caught them live at their show at the crystal ballroom, portland in the ‘00’s.
and their “Nothing can hurt me” documentary is in my itunes collection.

 

[srkbear]

hi srkbear-
i’ve been using a kanex haecoax with my bdp-103 and apple tv3 since jan.‘17, mostly for movie watching.
and feeding either an auralic vega or lavry da11 from its coax out.
it’s a solid little unit, and with >5yrs of almost daily use, pretty reliable.
in 5.1 mode, and watching/listening to surround-sound movies thru it, you only hear the left and right channels- no center/dialog sound.
you have to switch it to 2.0 mode, which converts surround (e.g., dolby, dts, hd-ma, etc.) to two channel (limited to no higher than 48khz), and is how i watch/listen to most movies with it.
though some, especially concerts (e.g., david gilmour-remember that night), will offer a 2-channel LPCM option in addition to surround, and the 5.1 kanex option will allow the full hi-res 2-channel sound to come thru.
some good kanex info in this article…

Fresh From the Bench: KanexPro HAECOAX HDMI Audio De-Embedder

This review explains the merits of the KanexPro HAECOAX, an HDMI audio de-embedder, which extracts the PCM datastream from your players HDMI output and feeds the datastream to an S/PDIF output at the disc’s full resolution. Gary Galo discovered the device some time ago, enabling him to extract...

audioxpress.com

…including this bit…
“John Siau at Benchmark Media Systems notes that his measurements show the unit to be bit-transparent in the 5.1-channel mode. One “undocumented” feature is that 16-bit sources are re-mapped to 24-bit, as indicated by the front-panel display on my Benchmark DAC2 DX”.

cheers

PS re: your Big Star avatar- i caught them live at their show at the crystal ballroom, portland in the ‘00’s.
and their “Nothing can hurt me” documentary is in my itunes collection.

I’m glad that someone else likes this little Kanex box! I too have found the multichannel selection to provide the highest sampling rates (not sure what their definition of “multichannel” is, but hey, it works). I’m using it currently to extract audio from a Sony UBP-x1000ES blu-ray/SACD player to the coaxial input on my Topping d90se, and with the “DSEE Extreme” upsampling engine engaged, I’m getting 88.2khz on Red Book CDs, 176.4khz on SACDs and 96khz on Blu Ray Audio, and to my ears it sounds great—although I’ve never seen any formal measurements of Sony’s upsampling tech.

You’re the first person to say a word about my Big Star avatar! Don’t even get me started, I prefer not to think of my life without Chris Bell or Alex Chilton (particularly the latter, although I think they complement each other every bit as much as Lennon/McCartney or Difford/Tilbrook and think they’re equally brilliant songwriters). I am incredibly jealous that you got to see Chilton live before we lost him—I would have been an absolute mess at that concert. How did they sound?

 

[Alt-Wrong]

I’m glad that someone else likes this little Kanex box! I too have found the multichannel selection to provide the highest sampling rates (not sure what their definition of “multichannel” is, but hey, it works). I’m using it currently to extract audio from a Sony BDP-x1000ES blu-ray/SACD player to the coaxial input on my Topping d90se, and with the “DSEE Extreme” upsampling engine engaged, I’m getting 88.2khz on Red Book CDs, 176.4khz on SACDs and 96khz on Blu Ray Audio, and to my ears it sounds great—although I’ve never seen any formal measurements of Sony’s upsampling tech.

You’re the first person to say a word about my Big Star avatar! Don’t even get me started, I prefer not to think of my life without Chris Bell or Alex Chilton (particularly the latter, although I think they complement each other every bit as much as Lennon/McCartney or Difford/Tilbrook and think they’re equally brilliant songwriters). I am incredibly jealous that you got to see Chilton live before we lost him—I would have been an absolute mess at that concert. How did they sound?

hi bear- i can only find info on UBP-x1000es, is that what you have? i don’t know if DSEE is doing anything other than upsampling x2, but by going thru the haecoax everything gets padded up to 24-bit (that wasn’t before), which could help the the topping perform a little better. that topping is part of the latest generation of even-better noise/jitter dac performers. my (now sold) auralic vega was a generation before, and the lavry da11 even another generation earlier. the vega could still make just about any digital source sound good, but the lavry benefits from help here and there. using an audiophilleo2 w/purepower to handle usb, then into the lavry‘s spdif input is far better than using lavry’s own usb input. i also use a monarchy audio digital interface processor (DIP) 24/96 when taking the coax out from the haecoax, and let the DIP do some old-school PLL-type de-jittering, then use its aes/ebu out into the lavry’s trans-coupled/galv-iso’d aes/ebu input. it’s all highly un-sexy, but i really like the lavry’s “high-rez reel-to-reel” very natural “creamy” un-digital sound, as well as its headphone out. but i use it mainly as a dac/pre-amp to feed a pro amplifier (380wts/ch) to power my fairly inefficient Gradient Helsinki 1.5 speakers, which pretty much disappear as sound sources when i’ve done all those un-sexy tweaks.

…and now, on to the show…
the big star concert wasn’t unlike their Columbia: live at MU album, which also used Auer and Stringfellow from The Posies to fill out the rest of the band. those two were the “opening act”, then Alex and Jody came out to join them to become Star. a lot of the same songs from that album were played, and a very good time was had by all. glad you mentioned difford/tilbrook, as those guys are melody/hooks/lyrics boozy funsters.

cheers

 

[BlackJub]

Having an odd issue with my X18. As I turn the volume up from 22 to 21 there is a dropout, a change in sound, and a shift in the image. Anybody else run across this?

Hi,
I am having the exact same issue. Did you find any way to fix it?
(Contacted Gustard by email, waiting for their answer)

 

[BlackJub]

Hi,
I am having the exact same issue. Did you find any way to fix it?
(Contacted Gustard by email, waiting for their answer)

Small follow-up, here is the Gustard support reply:

Yes, this is analog volume decay. It can effectively reduce the loss caused by digital volume attenuation. It is a normal phenomenon, please use it with confidence.

 

[archerious]

Small follow-up, here is the Gustard support reply:

My hearing is bad enough, that I cannot even tell.

 

[Gradius]

My hearing is bad enough, that I cannot even tell.

After -120dB NO ONE can really (except for dogs and the likes).

 

[archerious]

So i have been listening to the X18 for last two days. A bit of context before my comments, i am not an audiophile, not a technical person, just someone who likes listening to music, and plays with gears every now and then. I am primarily an analogue guy, vinyl is my major medium. Digital music is my backup system when i can't get the records i want, especially that i live in China. Ok, so..

Node 2i, X18, Rega elex-r, oberon 7
Regardless to what i read in many posts, there is a difference in sound compared to the onboard DAC. For me, much more transparent, better music separation, every note is a bit more punchy. If anything, I think it's too transparent that it's very digital sounding compared to my analogue system. For me, this DAC probably has much more clarity than i could ever hear a difference.

I am having one problem though is that i am having drop offs while using Coax (not sure if it is the right word to describe the scenario but music is just not smooth, as if connection is not secured? ), and i have no problem whilst using optical. Checked with Gustard they said it could be compatibility issue and cannot be fixed. So i am waiting for another cable to try. I can live by using optical, but not sure if i want to keep the DAC if there is an issue with Coax. Or i might get a second hand smsl su9 for USD300, or second hand D90SE for the same price as X18. I doubt my ears can tell the difference.

Not sure if someone asked before, but you can switch the power off using the power button in the front. Once you turn the main switch off at the back and turn it back on, you will have to press the power button in the front to really switch it on.

Not sure if above helps anyone.

Just had the same issue with my LG TV. I had a similar issue with D90SE.

 

[Roland68]

Just had the same issue with my LG TV. I had a similar issue with D90SE.

Unfortunately, one cannot say often enough that these compatibility problems do not come from the DAC manufacturers, but from the manufacturers of the source devices.
They don't stick to the old standard for SPDIF stereo, but send additional information via SPDIF, which is usually only understood by more modern AVRs.
Plug in an ancient CD player (no DVD, no BD, etc.) with SPDIF output and you won't have any problems with your DAC.

Btw, I had tried it with my LED TV and the Gustard A18.
Audio output in the TV set to 2-channel stereo, problems with SPDIF, no problems with the optical connection.
Connected to the AVR, it automatically switched to 2-channel stereo with an optical connection.
However, the AVR did not recognize stereo via SPDIF, but a multi-channel signal.
Everyone can guess where the problem is.

 

[archerious]

Unfortunately, one cannot say often enough that these compatibility problems do not come from the DAC manufacturers, but from the manufacturers of the source devices.
They don't stick to the old standard for SPDIF stereo, but send additional information via SPDIF, which is usually only understood by more modern AVRs.
Plug in an ancient CD player (no DVD, no BD, etc.) with SPDIF output and you won't have any problems with your DAC.

Btw, I had tried it with my LED TV and the Gustard A18.
Audio output in the TV set to 2-channel stereo, problems with SPDIF, no problems with the optical connection.
Connected to the AVR, it automatically switched to 2-channel stereo with an optical connection.
However, the AVR did not recognize stereo via SPDIF, but a multi-channel signal.
Everyone can guess where the problem is.

What's odd is the SMSL Sanskrit 10th MKII I have (suffers from ground loop often) actually works well with the TV's optical out.

The SMSL SU-9n that I had worked well with it (until it started getting loud hiss noises and had to be RMA'd....).

Schiit's DACs also work fine with my TV.

On SMSL there is a setting that I adjusted and then no drop outs. I wish Gustard and other brands ordered it.

EDIT: DPLL setting

 

[Roland68]

What's odd is the SMSL Sanskrit 10th MKII I have (suffers from ground loop often) actually works well with the TV's optical out.

The SMSL SU-9n that I had worked well with it (until it started getting loud hiss noises and had to be RMA'd....).

Schiit's DACs also work fine with my TV.

On SMSL there is a setting that I adjusted and then no drop outs. I wish Gustard and other brands ordered it.

EDIT: DPLL setting

If you had to lower the DPLL setting, then that clearly indicates the poor signal quality of your television.

 

[archerious]

If you had to lower the DPLL setting, then that clearly indicates the poor signal quality of your television.

LG OLED has beautiful colors but a horrible optical port.

 

[function9]

@amirm I am very curious about the x18's volume control, would it have any significant benefit when using as a preamp over other dacs?

Should there be a measurement at -50db (or equivalent voltage) for the dacs with volume control?

 

[REK2575]

Sorry @function9 I don't have an answer to your question. But I do have a question for other X18 owners:

Does your X18 run warm even when powered off? I just checked mine. It has been Off for over 12 hours. And it is warm to the touch. And I've been surprised/concerned that the unit runs very warm to touch after only a few minutes of use.

Do I have a potentially defective unit on my hands?

 

[JimmyMac]

Sorry @function9 I don't have an answer to your question. But I do have a question for other X18 owners:

Does your X18 run warm even when powered off? I just checked mine. It has been Off for over 12 hours. And it is warm to the touch. And I've been surprised/concerned that the unit runs very warm to touch after only a few minutes of use.

Do I have a potentially defective unit on my hands?

Yes, mine gets and stays warm when it's powered up, and stays warm when turned off with the front power button. If I turn it off using the rocker switch on the back, it fully powers down, and the unit then cools off. I usually keep on all day, then turn it off completely overnight.

 

[REK2575]

Thanks very much @JimmyMac for confirming. I tried powering down the unit using the back panel power switch, and now it's completely cool to the touch. I guess I didn't read the manual carefully, as the front 'power' button is actually a 'standby' button (Even though the LED screen says "POWER OFF" when you press it!). But I am surprised at how warm the unit gets simply on standby. I don't love the idea of having to power the unit off with the back switch (not easy to reach the way I have it situated) to actualy turn the thing off.

@JimmyMac - can I ask, how long have you had your X18?

 

[Roland68]

Thanks very much @JimmyMac for confirming. I tried powering down the unit using the back panel power switch, and now it's completely cool to the touch. I guess I didn't read the manual carefully, as the front 'power' button is actually a 'standby' button (Even though the LED screen says "POWER OFF" when you press it!). But I am surprised at how warm the unit gets simply on standby. I don't love the idea of having to power the unit off with the back switch (not easy to reach the way I have it situated) to actualy turn the thing off.

The X18 has a toroidal transformer that is only disconnected from the mains via the rear power switch.
Of course, all rectifiers, filter capacitors and voltage regulators are also supplied with power via the toroidal transformer and generate heat.
Only the "computer" area of the DAC is shut down via the front stand-by switch, which reduces power consumption and heat generation.

 

[JimmyMac]

Thanks very much @JimmyMac for confirming. I tried powering down the unit using the back panel power switch, and now it's completely cool to the touch. I guess I didn't read the manual carefully, as the front 'power' button is actually a 'standby' button (Even though the LED screen says "POWER OFF" when you press it!). But I am surprised at how warm the unit gets simply on standby. I don't love the idea of having to power the unit off with the back switch (not easy to reach the way I have it situated) to actualy turn the thing off.

@JimmyMac - can I ask, how long have you had your X18?

I've only had mine for about a month. Very happy with it so far, hooked up via coax to an old Oppo universal player, and via optical to my Wiim Mini streamer. I get bit perfect streaming from the Wiim, and MQA decoding works great from Tidal. I run the X18 at volume level -03 db, so it delivers slightly less than 2 volts to my integrated amp (so I can use more of the volume range on the amp).

JMac

 

[REK2575]

The X18 has a toroidal transformer that is only disconnected from the mains via the rear power switch.
Of course, all rectifiers, filter capacitors and voltage regulators are also supplied with power via the toroidal transformer and generate heat.
Only the "computer" area of the DAC is shut down via the front stand-by switch, which reduces power consumption and heat generation.

This is very helpful information - thank you @Roland68.

So now I'm wondering how the end-user is supposed to handle this. Is it advisable to always turn the X18 completely off using the back-panel switch when not in use? Or, is it OK to have it in 'standby' at all times it is not in use? Was the X18 designed to handle that?

I ordinarily wouldn't be concerned except that I was quite surprised at just how warm the unit was simply idling in standby. It was the kind of warmth I'd expect after using it for a solid hour or more. I've had a Sabaj D5 since 2019, and I leave it in equivalent 'standby' mode all the time, and it doesn't get warm at all in this state. Then again, the D5 also doesn't have the toroidal transformer that the X18 has (to the best of my knowledge).

I may have to take these questions to Aoshida HiFi. The X18 manual devotes a lot more space to things like installing Windows drivers than to more straightforward issues like this, unfortunately.

@JimmyMac -- thanks for this. I've been using the X18 at -02 dB; it's hooked up via XLR to a Rotel preamp.