Gustard X16 Owners feedback...

[dsnyder0cnn]

We shall see, no offense but I hope you are incorrect since I don‘t generally look at measurements but listen to my ears.

No offense taken, but you are definitely in the wrong forum if you are uninterested in measurements. Good luck.

 

[Yogi42]

You’re correct I shall humbly withdraw.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

You’re correct I shall humbly withdraw.

Sorry. I didn't mean to run off. It's just that ASR is a measurements-heavy forum. I do think that many here, myself included, also care about enjoyable, engaging listening experiences. Most of us have discovered a strong correlation between great measurements and great sound.

I have to admit that I was skeptical when I first came here…believing that there's so much more to sound quality than what measurements can tell us. However, after purchasing a half-dozen or so high-SINAD components recommended by Amir and comparing them to what I was using before, my eyes (and ears) have been opened. There's something to this stuff!

Do these measurements tells us everything we need to know about synergy…what devices will work well with each other? Well, possibly, but it takes more effort than just blindly buying a bunch of gear with SINAD over 100 dB, slapping them together, and hoping for the best. Distortion is additive across components, so you don't want it to show up in the same places, for example.

Amir seems to be consistent in his approach. Although it has evolved somewhat over the years, I think comparisons among products measured and reviewed at different times generally remain valid. If the numbers say that the X16 matches or exceeds the performance of the X26 Pro, I believe it enough that I would not be compelled to buy an X26 Pro to verify. However, since you have done so, I, for one, hope you will report back on your impressions.

 

[kiyu]

Sorry. I didn't mean to run off. It's just that ASR is a measurements-heavy forum. I do think that many here, myself included, also care about enjoyable, engaging listening experiences. Most of us have discovered a strong correlation between great measurements and great sound.

I have to admit that I was skeptical when I first came here…believing that there's so much more to sound quality than what measurements can tell us. However, after purchasing a half-dozen or so high-SINAD components recommended by Amir and comparing them to what I was using before, my eyes (and ears) have been opened. There's something to this stuff!

Do these measurements tells us everything we need to know about synergy…what devices will work well with each other? Well, possibly, but it takes more effort than just blindly buying a bunch of gear with SINAD over 100 dB, slapping them together, and hoping for the best. Distortion is additive across components, so you don't want it to show up in the same places, for example.

Amir seems to be consistent in his approach. Although it has evolved somewhat over the years, I think comparisons among products measured and reviewed at different times generally remain valid. If the numbers say that the X16 matches or exceeds the performance of the X26 Pro, I believe it enough that I would not be compelled to buy an X26 Pro to verify. However, since you have done so, I, for one, hope you will report back on your impressions.

hi!
Well, I would agree with you and also disagree, Measurements are important and matter, but... because it has better sinad that does not prove that sound better.
Humans can only reach 115db so if something is better than that it doesn't matter, none will know the difference.
if your point would be true then Gustard x16, will be better than 95% of the dac, because is in the top 5 of the chart...then sound better than all the rest of dacs that are below? it measures amazing yes! but that is not everything.

Tube amplifiers are really expensive and many many people love them, and they measure like crap, but people will still love them.
so my point is that not everything is measurements, they matter and help finding technical issues like bugs.

I am considering the new Gustard x18 and I am waiting for the measurements and wolf has already done it and he found a bug and report it to gustard and they fixed all that because of the measurements. The same happened with smsl su 9 and with Khadas tone 2 pro, Amir found a problem, and the new batch they fix it.


I really agree with you the synergy or the pieces, dac, amp headphones or speakers, must be pair, not sure the right words English is not my first language (you probably already figure that out) everything must be a balance if you have speakers 100 bucks and you get a gustard x16 or x26 or topping e30 it will probably sound the same, because the speakers are not that great of you have a speakers of 10000$ dac 1500$ but amp 200$ probably you will get a problem there, so balance is important.
again just a personal view.
cheers

 

[Deleted member 39414]

People like tubes because they look cool. The concept of a warm tube sound is simply noise in the system-to the degree it exists at all. You can even do that electronically but it doesn’t look cool so people don’t. my guess is most people buying tubes don’t care one way or the other how the music was meant to sound, just that they have shiney black and green glows in their living room that impress their friends and complicated vinyl setups. like any other fetish really.

 

[kiyu]

People like tubes because they look cool. The concept of a warm tube sound is simply noise in the system-to the degree it exists at all. You can even do that electronically but it doesn’t look cool so people don’t. my guess is most people buying tubes don’t care one way or the other how the music was meant to sound, just that they have shiney black and green glows in their living room that impress their friends and complicated vinyl setups. like any other fetish really.

Agree on " warm tube sound is simply noise in the system-to the degree it exists at all"
disagree with " my guess is most people buying tubes don’t care one way or the other how the music was meant to sound, " or in part..

I will say a stupid, probably really stupid comparison, so when you get some food, you always eat as is presented? is bad to add salt, or Mayonnaise, ketchup, or spicy sauce ?? because as you set food was presented in that way, why would you change it?
Because some time is BETTER to add something..( is a personal Taste)
So that "noise in the system-to the degree " for some music and for some people is like adding a "flavor", why is that bad?

I am poor and I don't have a tube system , but I do have a Senn hd 560s really analytical neutral flat.. but I have a Zeus ... completely different headphone, not linear or flat as the 560, and I enjoy more the music (in some gender) on the Zeus rather than on the HD 560s

anyway again, yeah Personal opinion, I could be really wrong, probably I am new in this hobby

 

[Yogi42]

I’m not trying to start a war but if the x16 measures equally with the x26 pro some thing is clearly wrong. The 2 have totally different power supplies, totally different DAC’s and much better electronics, simply use better resistors and capacitor’s will change measurements.
Just saying

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

I’m not trying to start a war but if the x16 measures equally with the x26 pro some thing is clearly wrong. The 2 have totally different power supplies, totally different DAC’s and much better electronics, simply use better resistors and capacitor’s will change measurements.
Just saying

Looks like we have measurements from Amir for the X18 now:

Gustard X18 Review (Stereo DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Gustard X18 Balanced USB DAC with Bluetooth. It was sent to me by their seller, Shenzhenaudio and costs US $749. As you see style is very much the same as other Gustard products. I like the high resolution display with larger volume...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have the X16 and won't be upgrading anytime soon, but if I was in the market for a new DAC today, the extra $250 for the X18 would not be difficult to for me to justify. Objectively speaking, the X26 Pro is out of the running for me, but YMMV.

 

[Dennis_FL]

I've had a lot of snap crackle pop out of my speakers and have been trying to figure out what the cause is. I suspected either the long USB cable from my Mac to the DAC or the Gustard X16 itself. What else could it be? It was on my own library plus Qobuz and Tidal selections.

I decided to narrow it down and ordered a second Raspberry Pi to wirelessly send music from Roon instead of the long cable (20 feet). I wanted to have a dedicated Roon Raspi and my existing Raspi does other things (like being a JRiver endpoint or server). So I ordered a $25 Raspi 3A after watching an excellent video on how to do it by our very own D Snyder (directly above).

Just received it yesterday and haven't installed it yet but in the mean time I turned off leveling in Roon and after two hours I have heard zero crackling.

Hmmmm. Very Interesting

Also, it just occurred to me that I didn't try using the JRiver endpoint in my Raspi 4.

UPDATE: I installed the Raspi 3A (admittedly I went through Dave's video at warp speed so I suspected many things would go wrong) ....but, I open Roon....and by golly --- there it is DietPi and my X16. It works !!!

Bad news, is when I plugged in a TV to log in with a display--- I had forgotten what password I used. Doggone it. How do I repair that?

 

[Deleted member 39414]

Agree on " warm tube sound is simply noise in the system-to the degree it exists at all"
disagree with " my guess is most people buying tubes don’t care one way or the other how the music was meant to sound, " or in part..

I will say a stupid, probably really stupid comparison, so when you get some food, you always eat as is presented? is bad to add salt, or Mayonnaise, ketchup, or spicy sauce ?? because as you set food was presented in that way, why would you change it?
Because some time is BETTER to add something..( is a personal Taste)
So that "noise in the system-to the degree " for some music and for some people is like adding a "flavor", why is that bad?

I am poor and I don't have a tube system , but I do have a Senn hd 560s really analytical neutral flat.. but I have a Zeus ... completely different headphone, not linear or flat as the 560, and I enjoy more the music (in some gender) on the Zeus rather than on the HD 560s

anyway again, yeah Personal opinion, I could be really wrong, probably I am new in this hobby

Wasn’t implying that their take isn’t more preferable to them just that it intnetionally varies from source. I love your comparison and agree, some want more flavor and noise is certainly flavor preference.

 

[Yogi42]

Just installed the x26 pro after 4+ hours laser thermo shows 97.3 at hottest spot. We started with the x16 the x26 out of the box more bass, depth, and sound stage. Seems the the midrange’s seem much stronger. Wife commented that it sounds much better. It’s interesting that bass is getting stronger and cleaner. It is much quieter than the x16 with no change in the system. Sound stage is massive. So far we are very pleased.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Just installed the x26 pro after 4+ hours laser thermo shows 97.3 at hottest spot. We started with the x16 the x26 out of the box more bass, depth, and sound stage. Seems the the midrange’s seem much stronger. Wife commented that it sounds much better. It’s interesting that bass is getting stronger and cleaner. It is much quieter than the x16 with no change in the system. Sound stage is massive. So far we are very pleased.

I remember gustard said production x16 voltage for xlr is capped at 4v.

According to Amir's measurements for x26, he needed to reduce x26 volume by 2db to get 4v output.

So, it is likely that what you heard is simply due to x26 is 2db louder than x16.

Try reduce x26 volume by 2db, then compare with x16 again and see if you still sense such differences.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

It is much quieter than the x16 with no change in the system.

Not sure why that would be. Here's the X26Pro:

And here's the X16:

If this is placebo effect, I hope it lasts for you. I'm actually a fan, as long as it lasts.

Other possibility is that your X16 was somehow damaged, but it's very well-built, so that seems unlikely. Enjoy.

 

[Yogi42]

Had to raise volume. i know that every one is desperate that prove the X26 isnt as good the x16, trust you ears. Don’t get mad trust you ears.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Had to raise volume. i know that every one is desperate that prove the X26 isnt as good the x16, trust you ears. Don’t get mad trust you ears.

What does "had to raise volume" means?

If one dac is 2db louder than the other, most people will prefer the louder one. No one is telling you that you didn't hear what you heard.

If you have a multi meter, just measure the voltage output of each dac when each dac being fed the same signal. Then let us know which one outputs higher voltage. The higher voltage one will sound louder and will have better bass and soundstage.

 

[pbarata]

Hi, just new here and I do have also some audio glitches (pops) during listening to mqa tracks, I do see on the x16 screen the mqa is jumping short to pcm and then back to mqa (during the "master" tracks in the Tidal app) this results in annoying pops/ticks.
Setup is wired stable internet over an allobridge signature, usb to Gustard x16.
All volumes are fixed and on 100% (volumio and Tidal app as well the volume of the X16) , tried different setups (like buffering etc) but the switching between mqa and pcm during the master tracks keeps going on.
Im lost an hope someone has/had this issue as well and can help me out fixing this issue

Just to add my experience. I'm using Gustard X16 together with a Raspberry Pi 4 working as a streamer with Volumio software. First I used one of the two USB 2.0 ports on Pi 4 and I had similar issues. Then I tried one of the USB 3.0 ports and that solved the problem. Using TIDAL everything goes smooth with any format. Also, using a NAS server with files in DSD, MQA and PCM also works fine.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

I bought my Gustard X16 some cheap "audiophile jewelry" this week, just for fun (confident that these would make zero difference to the already excellent sound), the Gustard fuse upgrade and I²S cable:

Trying the pair out with a new PI2AES build (DietPi + Roon Bridge):

Thought this would be a good opportunity to compare the sound of the iFi ZEN Stream as well. Predictably, there's no difference that I can detect via the THX AAA 789 headphone amp and HiFiMan HE400se headphones. But, it looks fancy, and that's really all I was going for.

I'm not sure that the I²S interface makes much sense in 2022 since clock recovery in modern DACs is not an issue. As I understand it, virtually all of them reclock the signal internally. But, now I can stop saying that I've never tried it!

Hoping these photos don't get me kicked off of ASR.

 

[alpha_logic]

Just installed the x26 pro after 4+ hours laser thermo shows 97.3 at hottest spot. We started with the x16 the x26 out of the box more bass, depth, and sound stage. Seems the the midrange’s seem much stronger. Wife commented that it sounds much better. It’s interesting that bass is getting stronger and cleaner. It is much quieter than the x16 with no change in the system. Sound stage is massive. So far we are very pleased.

There's a lot more filter capacitance on the X26 Pro, so it would make sense that the analog output stage can output dynamics swings,bass - ie. transients that can consume a lot of current - better than say the X16. Both DAC's use linear power supplies, hence they have to rely on filter capacitance to supply power for dynamic swings.
Anyone please feel free to expand on that if I'm missing something.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

There's a lot more filter capacitance on the X26 Pro, so it would make sense that the analog output stage can output dynamics swings,bass - ie. transients that can consume a lot of current - better than say the X16. Both DAC's use linear power supplies, hence they have to rely on filter capacitance to supply power for dynamic swings.
Anyone please feel free to expand on that if I'm missing something.

I do wish that @amirm 's DAC measurements contemplated more than steady-state behavior. That said, I'd be surprised if the X26 Pro is actually able to provide "a lot more current" than the X16. Surely, this sort of thing can be measured. Hoping to find objective truth…for now, we only have supposition and conjecture.

 

[alpha_logic]

I do wish that @amirm 's DAC measurements contemplated more than steady-state behavior. That said, I'd be surprised if the X26 Pro is actually able to provide "a lot more current" than the X16. Surely, this sort of thing can be measured. Hoping to find objective truth…for now, we only have supposition and conjecture.

The analog signal from the DAC chip is amplified in the analog output stage. The analog output stage draws power from the power supply via the filter caps which are charge-cycled @ 60hz via the linear power supply; the more power 'on tap', ie. the more capacitance these filter caps offer, the more power can be supplied to the analog output stage during dynamic swings. Now, I have no idea as to how much filter capacitance is 'good enough', or how much of a difference it makes in a DAC, since that's a 'small-signal' circuit, and will probably also depend on the exact implementation of the circuit. In power amplifiers, filter capacitance makes a big difference, but I don't know how or if that 'scales' the same way in a particular DAC. Just like you that's something I'd like to see measured, or at least expanded on as a topic - *if* there's something to be measured : )
If anyone has any insights on how much of a difference filter capacitance in combination with a linear power supply can/will affect a DAC's dynamic output capacity, I'd love to hear about it.