Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

[Pdxwayne]

yeah...kinda hesitant if I want to try out A18 or even SMSL M400..or just buy something not chi-fi

Yeah, although KTB, E30, and X16 all supposed to be transparent based on Amir's measurements, my own measurements using typical listening volume voltages show that they don't act similarly over a range of frequencies. What does this mean? Production materials and workmanship quality differences vs gold samples sent to Amir?

That 2Khz lower voltage output difference in X16 is most likely there. This is likely the reason for me to notice differences in bagpipes harmonics of Spirit of the Glen when using E30 vs X16, when listening in my living room with my stereo setup.

 

[Veri]

Yeah, although KTB, E30, and X16 all supposed to be transparent based on Amir's measurements, my own measurements using typical listening volume voltages show that they don't act similarly over a range of frequencies. What does this mean? Production materials and workmanship quality differences vs gold samples sent to Amir?

View attachment 110917

Your tests shows differences in percentages. Perfectly explainable by different reconstruction filters, which can show variations in 0.1-0.5dB ranges at most. This isn't proof of large perceptual/audible differences, I'm afraid. Not to mention your test is rather unorthodox..

 

[Pdxwayne]

Your tests shows differences in percentages. Perfectly explainable by different reconstruction filters, which can show variations in 0.1-0.5dB ranges at most. This isn't proof of large perceptual/audible differences, I'm afraid. Not to mention your test is rather unorthodox..

Yup, as mentioned many times, my multi meter is not accurate, but consistent. I would hope someone with better equipment can do similar measurements and see if indeed those differences can in fact larger, and thus noticeable in loud playback.

I am repeating what I just updated, but likely missed by you:

That 2Khz lower voltage output difference in X16 is most likely there. This is likely the reason for me to notice differences in bagpipes harmonics of Spirit of the Glen when using E30 vs X16, when listening in my living room with my stereo setup

 

[boblo]

I also wanted to try the SMSL SU-9, I liked the idea of color sound filters etc but it might be placebo

INDEED. It's pure placebo, I know what I'm talking about because I had one (I sent it back to Amazon). It doesn't matter which emulation mode you choose, Rich, Tube or Crystal, you always get the same sound (with speakers at least). In addition, build quality is mediocre. However, sound is very good (as expected).

 

[renaudrenaud]

I use Daphile, a Linux audio client for Logitech Media Server. X16 is recognized:

 

[Veri]

That 2Khz lower voltage output difference in X16 is most likely there. This is likely the reason for me to notice differences in bagpipes harmonics of Spirit of the Glen when using E30 vs X16, when listening in my living room with my stereo setup

From your own test, the X16 has 99.367% of the voltage compared to your reference, a difference of 0,633%? Come on, there's no way this is audible.. You're free to go by your own (anecdotal) experience but I see no real proof here.

 

[Pdxwayne]

From your own test, the X16 has 99.367% of the voltage compared to your reference, a difference of 0,633%? Come on, there's no way this is audible.. You're free to go by your own (anecdotal) experience but I see no real proof here.

Like I said, my multimeter is not an accurate device. The actual measured voltages differences could be larger when using appropriate device to measure.

Also, this small differences could also be audibled when played loud. I play loud in my living room.

Regarding the difference in bagpipes...When using E30, the high notes seems a bit strange, like they are coming from all directions and strong. With X16, the high notes of bagpipes sound like they come from one particular location of the stage and from a distance. I played 2Khz tone today using my phone and found similar kind of "coming from everywhere" sensation when played loud. So, I am assuming the difference I heard is due to that ~2Khz difference in voltage measurements between DAC.

Instead of doubting me, you are always welcome to do your own measurements and see if you can confirm my findings. That would be greatly appreciated!

 

[lshivamber]

To add a little to the post I made before, this is how I have it set up.
I used this USB port on the Raspberry Pi 4:
View attachment 110640

I then configured the Ropieee from the web interface as follows:

View attachment 110642
On Roon side I see the Bridge and the DAC appears as Gustard USB Audio 2.0. I change the name to Gustard X16, that is not the original name:
View attachment 110645

You have to Enable the device, and the Settings I have it with are as follows:
View attachment 110646

Hope this helps! if you need more help let me know and I can see if I can help you get it up and running.

Best Regards,

Carlos

Thanks Carlos. Followed and got it to work.

Can I ask what settings you are using on the X16 for filter? I am using LFS and it sounds like the stream is not as clear in some pieces (I listen to Norah Jones for comparison).

 

[cbayschm]

Thanks Carlos. Followed and got it to work.

Can I ask what settings you are using on the X16 for filter? I am using LFS and it sounds like the stream is not as clear in some pieces (I listen to Norah Jones for comparison).

I just realized I have it in H-Fast. Anyway, I haven't done a filter listening test, to determine what sounds best for me. I will try to see if I hear a difference.

 

[A Surfer]

Nobody is actually hearing differences in these DACs. Those who say they are are doing sighted listening tests, which are irrelevant and should never be considered as anything but fanciful fun. Seriously.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Nobody is actually hearing differences in these DACs. Those who say they are are doing sighted listening tests, which are irrelevant and should never be considered as anything but fanciful fun. Seriously.

What DAC? Do you have D90, E30, and X16 on hand to test both subjectively and objectively? Or are you just repeating certain mantras that many here like to repeat?

 

[Veri]

What DAC? Do you have D90, E30, and X16 on hand to test both subjectively and objectively? Or are you just repeating certain mantras that many here like to repeat?

Have you even tried an accurately volume matched test where you don't know which DAC you're listening to? Because that is the set-up where those audible differences you're 100% sure of, suddenly disappear. We've all been there. But it's much more likely they are imagined, subjective placebo, new-toy-syndrome like by-effects rather than the DACs being different enough to give such noticeable changes.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Have you even tried an accurately volume matched test where you don't know which DAC you're listening to? Because that is the set-up where those audible differences you're 100% sure of, suddenly disappear. We've all been there. But it's much more likely they are imagined, subjective placebo, new-toy-syndrome like by-effects rather than the DACs being different enough to give such noticeable changes.

Of cause. I have a whole thread for it.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ktb-vs-topping-e30-listening-tests.17988/

If you have time, read through it. Then, check my last message.

Hope you learn something.

 

[dmac6419]

Nobody is actually hearing differences in these DACs. Those who say they are are doing sighted listening tests, which are irrelevant and should never be considered as anything but fanciful fun. Seriously.

I didn't say that I and some said the H16 X16 stack sounds better than the A90 D90 stack,at least on my system,now if I move the DX7 pro over to the H16 it might sound better than the H16 X16 stack.

 

[A Surfer]

Of cause. I have a whole thread for it.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ktb-vs-topping-e30-listening-tests.17988/

If you have time, read through it. Then, check my last message.

Hope you learn something.

Not at all, you didn't prove anything. The vast majority of the efforts in that thread suggested that the detection rate was no different than guessing. The thing with your daughter showed that she may have been able to detect upper treble roll off in a particular filter that wasn't a good choice for fidelity of signal. Even then, your daughter did not do enough trials. Under 15 trials without a minimum detection rate of 90% is completely inconclusive. Still great that you went to all the trouble.

 

[A Surfer]

yeah...kinda hesitant if I want to try out A18 or even SMSL M400..or just buy something not chi-fi

I'm the opposite, my preference is for Chinese gear now as they seem to be the only ones making feature rich, audibly transparent DACs. The Modius seems to be a great option, but no Bluetooth which for me is a minimal connectivity option that must be included. DACs from other companies like Chord are offensively over-priced so not an option unless one has the money to burn. IMO. I am sure there are some non Chinese/SE Asia offerings that I am unaware of, but from what I see these days, for the price, you just can't beat what is coming from companies like SMSL, Gustard and Topping.

 

[ABall]

Under 15 trials without a minimum detection rate of 90% is completely inconclusive. Still great that you went to all the trouble.

Here's the thing, im coming from 30 years of being one of those people that have been replacing caps, power supplies resistors etc and I have enjoyed doing the work and listening to music on my equipment. However I have stuck around here because I want to stop spending money on this stuff and its working! Just to point out I am on both sides..... But who makes these rules up? Ive read all about ABX testing, how you have to have so many positive results and 7 out of 10 is just the same as guessing. There is no SCIENCE in these parameters that I can find, only opinions, how do you prove these things, maybe I should of posted this on that other thread but its been brought up here.... I used to avoid equipment with opamp outputs like the plague, always thought the sound of discrete circuits sounded better.... I am much happier trusting numbers now, I may have sold myself out but Its going to save me a lot of grief and money and guess what, the music still sounds good. Oh and for us subjectivists, I cant count how many times Ive had life changing sound stages only to find out a couple of days later its not there, mood could play a massive part in this, I used to measure in my mind where every note and every instrument was in my lounge, I was obsessed, changing days could have the same effect as changing a component or device..... Just food for thought.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Not at all, you didn't prove anything. The vast majority of the efforts in that thread suggested that the detection rate was no different than guessing. The thing with your daughter showed that she may have been able to detect upper treble roll off in a particular filter that wasn't a good choice for fidelity of signal. Even then, your daughter did not do enough trials. Under 15 trials without a minimum detection rate of 90% is completely inconclusive. Still great that you went to all the trouble.

I hope you are not going to deny measured voltage differences, even with certain filters, are not audible, and keep repeating that everything is imagined, subjective placebo....

 

[ABall]

I hope you are not going to deny measured voltage differences, even with certain filters, are not audible, and keep repeating that everything is imagined, subjective placebo....

Could the fluctuations in uk mains voltage cause this? They are quite large, or maybe the regulation of the power supply per device? Non regulated would certainly be worse but even regulation has fluctuation doesnt it?

 

[Veri]

I hope you are not going to deny measured voltage differences, even with certain filters, are not audible

No mate everyone is in full agreement here

And no, testing NOS/ AKM super slow vs a non-broken filter does not prove anything. You're just empirically performing a frequency response test.. standardized measurements are far more reliable