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Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

digicidal

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I know it's already been mentioned, but I wonder how this compares to the SU-9. I just got an SU-9 that I only use for MQA and DSD [Gumby for PCM]. Should I send the SU-9 back and get either this or the SGD1? I like the SU-9, but wish it was more 3d sounding like my Gumby [prob doesn't even matter as I am going to guess that you guys will say they all sound pretty close]. Audiophilia Nervosa in full effect, obviously...

Not that it would have any weight for your decision, but I'm certainly not sending my SU-9 back and I'm definitely still within the return period. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "3D sounding" - since that is something that shouldn't be different. The DAC is transparent (as is the Gustard obviously) and the difference between the two devices is so minimal that it requires precision equipment to even document - i.e. no human ears are capable of it.

My guess would be that the "Gumby" (is that the Schiit Gungnir?) is far less transparent and possiblly coloring the output somehow that is pleasing to your ears? If that's the case then probably none of those options (this, the SU-9 or the SGD1) will sound "as good" to you because you've acclimated to the colored sound.

Not that I'm saying there's anything inherently wrong with that - but it's not exactly what the source recording contains and nothing else (at least presuming your presentation is the same i.e. same HP/Speakers, etc.). If non-linearity, noise, distortion, etc. weren't very appealing to many... there wouldn't be a market for tubes and vinyl either. The bottom line is that all three of those DACs will sound identical to any human - so either go with features and appearance alone... or look for devices which measure similarly to your gumby (even if this is much worse objectively).

EDIT: Of course @amirm beat me to it... and much more succinctly as well. ;)
 

Chippyboy

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Amir, thanks for the review. Another impressive product to market.



I couldn't agree more John. I really don't care if SINAD is 5dB one way or the other at 2 or 5.3V or whatever at this level of performance in a unit with nothing broken. What I anticipate most is DSP. PEQ first, and Dirac, or something similar, but cheaper, or free, later on. That open source one is exciting. ADC with excellent phono ability or mic pre ability would be nice too, and could be added for a lot less than we are spending on separates right now.
Trigger out would be nice as well eh!
 

Cortes

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But, really, can you genuinely hear a difference from another 100+ dB SINAD DAC?

I do recall a site with a post that said "How do you deal with people thinking a DAC has a SOUND SIGNATURE?" with lots of discussion about the double-blind audible differences of DACs.

I also recall this chart showing the threshold of audibility:

index.php


I do think we are seeing price/measured performance barriers being smashed regularly, but I also wonder what is the point of it all if we have a hard time hearing a difference.

Same thoughts. The leave it clear: if I went to purchase a DAC now I'd consider only -for different reasons- the Oktoresearch, RME-ADI and this Gustard X16. However, this idea of neglecting great DACs because the new ones measure better, when human hearing is unable to distinguish them makes no sense. Wish to change DACs with measurements that show performance above the human capabilities is like what happens in headfi or CA: people wishing to get rid of their current gear because a new fantastic subjective review. We are getting caught by the same psicological bias.

Someone above mentioned that probable is better now to focus on system integration. I strongly agree with that. This dirty thing of impedance mistmatches probably has much more effect than any change of DAC, and probably deserves deeper attention.
 

digicidal

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Someone above mentioned that probable is better now to focus on system integration. I strongly agree with that. This dirty thing of impedance mistmatches probably has much more effect than any change of DAC, and probably deserves deeper attention.

True, but to some extent a relative non-issue IMO. With the exception of edge-cases, nearly all equipment of a similar level (simply speaking economically in this case) should be quite compatible. If you're going to pair a $500 DAC/HPA with an "exotic" $20K amp or headphones... then you might need to be concerned with this. On the other hand, I can't think of any $500 amps or headphones that would create significantly audible problems (related to impedance that is).
 

nj75f

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Is there a way to ask Gustard some technical questions? Can you forward some?
1. Are they using SiC or soft recovery hyper FREDs in the power supply bridges yet? Replacing their generic diodes to soft recovery FREDs made a
[...]
Thank you
Here is the e-mail address #41
- email address: [email protected]
Tel:18682080102 (for mandarin only)
Wechat:18682080102

Also: Fuck MQA! Do not like this gaining more traction.

@amirm
Could you add this to the end of you review please? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...anced-mqa-dac-review.17419/page-6#post-564855
You are not promoting Wolfs measurements and forgot to test output impedance this time ;)
I think it is important to know this for matching devices.
 

digicidal

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M400 + A90.
I can't seem to find what the input impedance is on the A90, but I stand corrected in that this definitely could be a case. Considering the output levels of the M400 however would that affect most use cases (in an easily audible way I mean)? I'm genuinely curious, but my maths have been exceeded by the question. ;)
 

nj75f

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I asked the same question (since it is hard to search this up among 10000k comments).
M400 xlr ouput is 10k ohms.

Topping A90: 2kOhm for balance input. 10k for unbalanced.

So far Gustards data for dacs A18 or X16 was correct so far, with only low deviations of 50 ohms.
Output impedance 100 ohms (around 150 measured)
XLR Output level: 4Vrms(VOLUME 00dB)
Output impedance 300 ohms (around 350 measured).

Smsl SU-9 RCA output is ~120 and for xlr it is 370 ohms.

Is similarly low for topping D90 I remember.

Can match and mix them freely. Will only lose negligible audio level. Simply get short interconnect cables; 30 cm or so.
Only careful about the M400 Dac.
 

boXem

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I can't seem to find what the input impedance is on the A90, but I stand corrected in that this definitely could be a case. Considering the output levels of the M400 however would that affect most use cases (in an easily audible way I mean)? I'm genuinely curious, but my maths have been exceeded by the question. ;)
No time for researching now, but I have 2k in mind for A90 input impedance. Combined with 1k output impedance of the M400, wont cause distortion, noise or whatever, but the attenuation should clearly be audible when compared with other combinations.
 

digicidal

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No time for researching now, but I have 2k in mind for A90 input impedance. Combined with 1k output impedance of the M400, wont cause distortion, noise or whatever, but the attenuation should clearly be audible when compared with other combinations.

Provided level was matched at inputs rather than output correct (in a comparison I mean)? Otherwise wouldn't the (~1dB or so at a guess) of attenuation be fairly easily compensated for in most cases and at worst be a very minor rolloff in the highest frequencies? Maybe I'm abnormal in this regard, but in use with dozens of source and output combinations selected at random earlier in life... I've still never come across a combination in which I've even approached max output levels (whether into passives, actives, or headphones).

Perhaps because I can't hear much above 16kHz (age) it doesn't strike me as a significant problem even in this case (in fact, I prefer a bit of a rolloff in the 12k+ range and I usually wind up puting one in the EQ anyway). :D
 

boXem

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Provided level was matched at inputs rather than output correct (in a comparison I mean)? Otherwise wouldn't the (~1dB or so at a guess) of attenuation be fairly easily compensated for in most cases and at worst be a very minor rolloff in the highest frequencies? Maybe I'm abnormal in this regard, but in use with dozens of source and output combinations selected at random earlier in life... I've still never come across a combination in which I've even approached max output levels (whether into passives, actives, or headphones).

Perhaps because I can't hear much above 16kHz (age) it doesn't strike me as a significant problem even in this case (in fact, I prefer a bit of a rolloff in the 12k+ range and I usually wind up puting one in the EQ anyway). :D
It's -6 dB. Division by 2. On the entire frequency range. EQ won't save you. :)
 

tonapo

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I am mentally stuck between choosing a new DAC, largely between the X16, the RME ADI-2 and the Topping D90. The X16 looks appealing and its £341.75. I know where I am with the D90, although pricey if I buy in the UK £600 rather than abroad (£460). The ADI looks appealing as any new DAC will be used on my desktop, and I like the fancy lights and the extra functionality (which I arguably don't need but would like)! But its £838 in the UK.

I upscale my local files (and Qobuz) via HQ Player to DSD 256.

Its nice having lots of choice, and at different price points. But I can't decide. I might need to pull one out of a bag at random at this rate!
 

digicidal

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It's -6 dB. Division by 2. On the entire frequency range. EQ won't save you. :)
I would say that EQ has saved me 100's of times... but I understand what you're saying regarding this particular case. I have to go back and re-read the discussion of this which I can't seem to find presently. My search-fu has failed me in this instance, I could have sworn I read it somewhat recently on here.

I am mentally stuck between choosing a new DAC, largely between the X16, the RME ADI-2 and the Topping D90. The X16 looks appealing and its £341.75. I know where I am with the D90, although pricey if I buy in the UK £600 rather than abroad (£460). The ADI looks appealing as any new DAC will be used on my desktop, and I like the fancy lights and the extra functionality (which I arguably don't need but would like)! But its £838 in the UK.

I upscale my local files (and Qobuz) via HQ Player to DSD 256.

Its nice having lots of choice, and at different price points. But I can't decide. I might need to pull one out of a bag at random at this rate!
I'd say the biggest question is whether you will make use of the extra features in the ADI-2 or not. They should all sound the same, but the RME has way more advanced features and a great HP amp as well... IMO that's a pretty compelling difference - but if you're positive you'd never use headphones (or already have an HPA), and will be doing EQ elsewhere (or not at all) then probably cost/looks is the best deciding factor?

Edit: I should add perhaps customer support? Although all three have produced exceptional DACs by objective standards... the Topping and Gustard units are near the top of their product portfolio... while in RME's case the ADI-2 is definitely their "budget" offering. Not sure that matters to you, but it could be a consideration as well. I'm not saying Gustard or Topping don't have responsive CS however... or less reliable products (I don't have the data to support that one way or another) - just that RME's reputation in pro audio at least is fairly spotless.
 
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tonapo

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I'd say the biggest question is whether you will make use of the extra features in the ADI-2 or not. They should all sound the same, but the RME has way more advanced features and a great HP amp as well... IMO that's a pretty compelling difference - but if you're positive you'd never use headphones (or already have an HPA), and will be doing EQ elsewhere (or not at all) then probably cost/looks is the best deciding factor?

Thanks for the reply.

Well, I don't use headphones currently, and I have not done EQ at my desk however, I may use headphones at some point and I would like to fiddle around with EQ. So I lean a bit towards the RME, but for no definitive reason.

Edit: I should add perhaps customer support? Although all three have produced exceptional DACs by objective standards... the Topping and Gustard units are near the top of their product portfolio... while in RME's case the ADI-2 is definitely their "budget" offering. Not sure that matters to you, but it could be a consideration as well. I'm not saying Gustard or Topping don't have responsive CS however... or less reliable products (I don't have the data to support that one way or another) - just that RME's reputation in pro audio at least is fairly spotless.

Thats also a consideration. I bought a D90, and its been great but I am not sure what customer service would look like if I did have a problem. If I did buy the RME from an English provider I would have warranty support and some protection, in theory, especially if buying with a credit card. However the RME is nearly three times the price of the X16. So, still not clear cut.
 

dmac6419

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I know it's already been mentioned, but I wonder how this compares to the SU-9. I just got an SU-9 that I only use for MQA and DSD [Gumby for PCM]. Should I send the SU-9 back and get either this or the SGD1? I like the SU-9, but wish it was more 3d sounding like my Gumby [prob doesn't even matter as I am going to guess that you guys will say they all sound pretty close]. Audiophilia Nervosa in full effect, obviously...
no keep the su9 and wait for the next best dac
 

dmac6419

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Here is the e-mail address #41
- email address: [email protected]
Tel:18682080102 (for mandarin only)
Wechat:18682080102

Also: Fuck MQA! Do not like this gaining more traction.

@amirm
Could you add this to the end of you review please? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...anced-mqa-dac-review.17419/page-6#post-564855
You are not promoting Wolfs measurements and forgot to test output impedance this time ;)
I think it is important to know this for matching devices.
Why you mad at an audio codec?,there's hundreds of codecs
 

ZgSTar

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Excellent timing, I am just in the market to buy another DAC for my primary system (AHB2 and B&W 702s2) and move my RME ADI-2 DAC v2 to my secondary setup (Purify et400 on PMC Twenty5.23). Because of the output voltages and input gains on the amplifiers I am wondering if it is worth putting a preamp in front of the X16 to feed the RME with higher voltage and use it with the lowest gain setting possible? I posted a similar question on another topic so I don't want to repeat myself and be too verbose ( here ). Thank you guys and well done to Gustard.
 

vkvedam

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Mightily impressed, well done to Gustard engineers :)
 

Morla

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I lent the APX555B to Guatard for free. This product is their final result.

I am very happy to see that my dream of promoting the progress of China's audio industry is gradually realized.

Hi,

do you think the re-release of the A18 with toslink was also influenced by your measurement equipment?

It was the first time that I used the google translator to understand some words of your review. On the other hand the graphics already told a good story.

I just bought a X16 for the (home)office :)
 
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Hello. I use a cheap Bluetooth receiver connected to my amplifier to play music from Tidal on my mobile phone through my bookshelf speakers. Would one of these Dacs connected to a laptop and my amplifier to play Tidal be better sound quality wise than my Bluetooth receiver? Sorry I really don't have a clue. Thanks.
 
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