GUSTARD S16 Streamer

[memyselfandi]

The X16 is a full MQA Decoder so you'll be fine there.

Your initial question specifically referred to Roon. I would have thought that spending a few more days weighing up Roon (you're only 3 days into the trial) might have been advantageous. An RPi running Ropieee XL would have enabled you to run Spotify alongside Roon. Just wondering what it was that attracted you to the Roon trial in the first place?

Ooo I am running Roon server, core and remotes through their paces (11 days left)... I do like Roon a lot but without Spotify support and not amazing Tidal support (playlists are so (too) painful to set-up / transfer in/to Roon). I do have ~4T of music/audiobooks so something like Roon is useful... but the subscription fee is a bit much (for what it is) and the lifetime ~350$ price was ok but with the new prices I am not sure...
Volumio Pirmo hifi edition will be actually cheaper than Roon and it includes hardware and software and supports Spotify, yt music and a few other services that some of my friends use.

 

[hmscott]

Ooo I am running Roon server, core and remotes through their paces (11 days left)... I do like Roon a lot but without Spotify support and not amazing Tidal support (playlists are so (too) painful to set-up / transfer in/to Roon). I do have ~4T of music/audiobooks so something like Roon is useful... but the subscription fee is a bit much (for what it is) and the lifetime ~350$ price was ok but with the new prices I am not sure...
Volumio Pirmo hifi edition will be actually cheaper than Roon and it includes hardware and software and supports Spotify, yt music and a few other services that some of my friends use.

Has Roon fixed playlists? I ran across this thread on Playlists while researching, and it started in 2016... still going today...

We want your ideas for Playlists!
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/we-want-your-ideas-for-playlists/8358

I only fixate on that as Playlists were a big problem for me over years with Amazon Music HD, but amazingly Amazon has fixed the Playlist editing activated crashing I used to have all the time in their Windows app. Their MacOS app is aok today too.

Perhaps if we had a Volumio Users thread here on ASR we could pull all these disparate discussions into one searchable thread or forum - as I and probably others would like to hear your comparison between Roon and Volumio Primo Hifi Edition after using it for a while.

 

[memyselfandi]

The X16 is the first device I've seen offer MQA hardware rendering through optical/coax/AES/IIS, that's pretty cool right there

"C0AX/ AES/OPT/IIS supports MQA hardware rendering." on the shenzenaudio site, and I assume that is described here, but the images with the info details aren't in English:

Spoiler: Gustard X16 MQA product info image

http://www.gustard.cn/?post_type=products&page_id=8938
View attachment 107484

Also with the AKM factory fire it will be easier and more affordable for Gustard to offer the Dual ES9068AS based X16 vs the A18 (AKM4499) moving forward.

I assume you are getting the "Volumio – Primo Hi-Fi Edition" for the MyVolumio SuperStar lifetime plan for enablement of the features too?

Spoiler: Volumio Primo vs

View attachment 107485

That is certainly more affordable than the Roon Nucleus (Plus) + Lifetime Roon subscription. With Volumio you are getting in on the ground floor, so to speak. Good luck to you and Volumio.

New stuff is fun, Enjoy

Thank you for the information, and yes a solid MQA support is a bonus... mqa is momentarily solution to streaming large music files and I like the sounds of it, my SACDs sounds better but... As a Tidal HiFi subscription costs a fraction of what buying DSD/HD music files/discs costs, I have no issue with the DRM or whatever (streaming protection) solution. I also make (some) money of streaming music that I worked on and do not feel that streaming give anyone the rights to owning... but that is a whole another issue #FixStreaming.

Yes I ordered the Volumio Primo Hi-Fi, I been in contact with Michelangelo over the years mainly about the Motivo device he is working on... anyway he is knowledgeable and a joy to communicate with. I am happy to (finally) support his dream .

I be happy to report on my Room trial (once finished) and also on Volumio (once setup and running)...
As for getting RPi (setup) I just can not be fucked, rather paint a painting or write a song...

 

[memyselfandi]

Has Roon fixed playlists? I ran across this thread on Playlists while researching, and it started in 2016... still going today...

We want your ideas for Playlists!
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/we-want-your-ideas-for-playlists/8358

I only fixate on that as Playlists were a big problem for me over years with Amazon Music HD, but amazingly Amazon has fixed the Playlist editing activated crashing I used to have all the time in their Windows app. Their MacOS app is aok today too.

Perhaps if we had a Volumio Users thread here on ASR we could pull all these disparate discussions into one searchable thread or forum - as I and probably others would like to hear your comparison between Roon and Volumio Primo Hifi Edition after using it for a while.

Roon Playlists fixed? I do not call exporting and importing a spreadsheet a fix... I have almost 100s of folders on Spotify and almost 500 playlists, thanks to soundiiz transferring and syncing them with Tidal is a not too crazy (6-7 clicks) process... but then Tidal has no folders so yeah, fuck me and the person who invented scrolling... #TidalNeedsFoldersInaHugeway

 

[hmscott]

Roon Playlists fixed? I do not call exporting and importing a spreadsheet a fix... I have almost 100s of folders on Spotify and almost 500 playlists, thanks to soundiiz transferring and syncing them with Tidal is a not too crazy (6-7 clicks) process... but then Tidal has no folders so yeah, fuck me and the person who invented scrolling... #TidalNeedsFoldersInaHugeway

Are you using Soundiiz and TuneMyMusic from Tidal's Playlist import?
https://tidal.com/import-playlist

Perhaps there is a place we can continue this outside of the S16 thread? I don't see any S16 news, but there are a lot of Volumio threads out there:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...631328/&q=volumio&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

 

[memyselfandi]

Are you using Soundiiz and TuneMyMusic from Tidal's Playlist import?
https://tidal.com/import-playlist

Perhaps there is a place we can continue this outside of the S16 thread? I don't see any S16 news, but there are a lot of Volumio threads out there:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...631328/&q=volumio&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

Yeah sure... I have stages where i do things and then do not do them sometimes for years... be it painting, music or updating my hardware... I think my hifi updating will come to and end once the Volumio Primo, Gustard X16 and my (Schiit) Freya with the matched 1950 Tung-Sol 6SN7GT Tubes (Gray Glass Round Black Plates) is updated to the Freya+ ... So I say mid Feb all this should be done... so I plan to working on music and writing... and will not be posting much, but who knows, there are global changes afoot... I may even buy a S16

 

[Sukie]

do like Roon a lot but without Spotify support and not amazing Tidal support (playlists are so (too) painful to set-up / transfer in/to Roon).

I do know that playlist integration often comes on this forum. I get the frustration. I don't use playlists so it's no hassle to me, but you make a good point.

Enjoy the Primo (and the X16).

 

[Jimbob54]

Roon Playlists fixed? I do not call exporting and importing a spreadsheet a fix... I have almost 100s of folders on Spotify and almost 500 playlists, thanks to soundiiz transferring and syncing them with Tidal is a not too crazy (6-7 clicks) process... but then Tidal has no folders so yeah, fuck me and the person who invented scrolling... #TidalNeedsFoldersInaHugeway

If you think Tidal isnt great for playlists , you should try Qobuz. 999 track limit. in 2021!!!!! If you import from Soundiiz it creates as many X pt1, X pt2 etc as it needs to transfer the whole thing. Then of course you cant use Soundiiz to keep in sync in the future, manually delete from Qobuz and re import periodically. So I gave up.

 

[Sukie]

If you think Tidal isnt great for playlists , you should try Qobuz. 999 track limit. in 2021!!!!!

Qobuz definitely keeps it "old school" (album-centred rather than playlist-centred). Mind you, I think that about Roon as well. When I'm using Roon it always feels like I'm getting up and putting on a CD, without the hassle of moving my lazy arse and without the expense of buying new albums. I fully understand that it's not for everybody. If it doesn't tick enough boxes then, by definition, it's not going to be worth the fee!

 

[memyselfandi]

Qobuz definitely keeps it "old school" (album-centred rather than playlist-centred). Mind you, I think that about Roon as well. When I'm using Roon it always feels like I'm getting up and putting on a CD, without the hassle of moving my lazy arse and without the expense of buying new albums. I fully understand that it's not for everybody. If it doesn't tick enough boxes then, by definition, it's not going to be worth the fee!

Yes I 100% agree Roon and Qobuz are somewhat stack in the past, even Tidal is behind (clunky and unitative UI)...
It all shows in the market share percentage, Spotify is baby easy and a joy to use; make folders/playlists or favor/collect albums, artists, songs, audiobooks or podcasts... I so hope they do lossless in the future.
I wish the others just copy/matched the (basic) functionality/features of Spotify... but I know it is not as straightforward as that... maybe one day

 

[Sukie]

Yes I 100% agree Roon and Qobuz are somewhat stack in the past, even Tidal is behind (clunky and unitative UI)...
It all shows in the market share percentage, Spotify is baby easy and a joy to use; make folders/playlists or favor/collect albums, artists, songs, audiobooks or podcasts... I so hope they do lossless in the future.
I wish the others just copy/matched the (basic) functionality/features of Spotify... but I know it is not as straightforward as that... maybe one day

The funny thing is that I rather like the old school approach of Roon and Qobuz.

But you're spot on with your market share analysis. Spotify dominate because they offer what most people want. The market for hi-res (or even redbook) streaming appears to be limited. Many on this site (myself included) might regret this, but you can't refute the evidence.

 

[memyselfandi]

The funny thing is that I rather like the old school approach of Roon and Qobuz.

But you're spot on with your market share analysis. Spotify dominate because they offer what most people want. The market for hi-res (or even redbook) streaming appears to be limited. Many on this site (myself included) might regret this, but you can't refute the evidence.

Most of my musician friend (bands) do not put out albums anymore... so not sure how that fits into the old school approach... they will have to adopt one day

As hi definition/resolution equipment is becoming cheaper and cheaper it will not take long until the majority (Spotify listeners) will start to hear/realise what they are missing... once that happened Spotify will offer a streaming quality to match the popular (high def and/or lossless) equipment/demand... or they just buy Tidal...

 

[Sukie]

Most of my musician friend (bands) do not put out albums anymore... so not sure how that fits into the old school approach... they will have to adopt one day

Luckily there's still plenty of new stuff coming out in album format that I like. Although I do find that single track releases give an exciting foretaste!

 

[cyberthingy]

I'm an older music lover who still buys CDs where possible. I like to own things rather than rent. I have purchased some downloadable music from HDTracks and Bandcamp but I am not too keen on streaming at the moment. I am having a hard time understanding the value of paying a monthly fee to listen to music I already purchased. I get that Roon lets me consolidate both physical and cloud based media but again why should I have to pay to listen to what I already own. I would rather pay a one time fee for a solution and be done with it. But that's just me..

 

[memyselfandi]

I'm an older music lover who still buys CDs where possible. I like to own things rather than rent. I have purchased some downloadable music from HDTracks and Bandcamp but I am not too keen on streaming at the moment. I am having a hard time understanding the value of paying a monthly fee to listen to music I already purchased. I get that Roon lets me consolidate both physical and cloud based media but again why should I have to pay to listen to what I already own. I would rather pay a one time fee for a solution and be done with it. But that's just me..

Yes, you are right on the money... I have whittled my collection down to ~ 2000 CDs... but to be honest I only play CDs a few times a year. I have a vast SACD collection and I play that a lot more. I do not buy CDs anymore but I buy SACDs all the time... Streaming is 90% of my music listening and to be honest the ~15 years I have been with Spotify have been the best. There is zero possibility that even reading every issue of The Wire would have directed me to the amazing discoveries that Spotify has. All I can say to anyone who loves music; Spotify is the most amazing and revolutionary thing that happened to music in the last 15 years. If you not part of that you are missing out in a huge way.

Maybe thinking of streaming as paying to rent something that you already own is not exactly wrong but I think this kind of thinking misses out on some of the most amazing and unpredictable music experiences/discoveries to be had. Also 16bit/44.1kHz is not 48/24 or 96/24 or DSD extra so when you throw Tidal Masters into the mix. Many bands/companies/artists have gone back to the master tapes and re-exported or in many cases remastered albums in resolutions that leave CDs in the dithering sonic dust... I work/compose (music/sounds design) in 96kHz/64bit float and once the CPUs that are available to the public become more powerful, I will work in higher resolutions. So as is my work can only be truly (physically) represented on a multi track (surround) SACD... I do not see many (record) companies or artists releasing or investing big money into surround SACDs (I wish they did), but Dolby Atmos and multitrack HD music is streaming or is available to download. Best of all with just a few clicks, I or any artist/company can share their music with the world and they do.

 

[cyberthingy]

Yes, you are right on the money... I have whittled my collection down to ~ 2000 CDs... but to be honest I only play CDs a few times a year. I have a vast SACD collection and I play that a lot more. I do not buy CDs anymore but I buy SACDs all the time... Streaming is 90% of my music listening and to be honest the ~15 years I have been with Spotify have been the best. There is zero possibility that even reading every issue of The Wire would have directed me to the amazing discoveries that Spotify has. All I can say to anyone who loves music; Spotify is the most amazing and revolutionary thing that happened to music in the last 15 years. If you not part of that you are missing out in a huge way.

Maybe thinking of streaming as paying to rent something that you already own is not exactly wrong but I think this kind of thinking misses out on some of the most amazing and unpredictable music experiences/discoveries to be had. Also 16bit/44.1kHz is not 48/24 or 96/24 or DSD extra so when you throw Tidal Masters into the mix. Many bands/companies/artists have gone back to the master tapes and re-exported or in many cases remastered albums in resolutions that leave CDs in the dithering sonic dust... I work/compose (music/sounds design) in 96kHz/64bit float and once the CPUs that are available to the public become more powerful, I will work in higher resolutions. So as is my work can only be truly (physically) represented on a multi track (surround) SACD... I do not see many (record) companies or artists releasing or investing big money into surround SACDs (I wish they did), but Dolby Atmos and multitrack HD music is streaming or is available to download. Best of all with just a few clicks, I or any artist/company can share their music with the world and they do.

I do have some HiRes music in 96/24 and to be honest I find it very difficult to distinguish them from the ripped CD counterparts at 44.1/16. I wish I could but I must not have sufficient hearing to hear the difference. I think the masters and the ways they were recorded make all the difference in the world though. There are so many rock recordings made in the 70's that blow away the quality of most modern tracks. It just amazes me how poorly most recording are done these days.

I have a small collection of SACD's that I ripped to DSD files a couple years back but I have a hard time finding SACD titles that I would be willing to pay more than about $25 for. There's a lot of classical stuff but I don't really get into that very much. I think it's cool that you are engaged in music production and focus on high resolution formats. If I could go back in time I would have learned to play keyboards and guitar and produce my own music. I do have access to Amazon's Hi-Res library but I really don't care for their interface. I keep debating whether I want to try Tidal. I'm just having a hard time with my life being a subscription. I do explore some on Bandcamp and support some artists on that platform. I do have to say that I have probably reached a point where my gear is plenty good and I have no reason to keep buying so-called upgrades. I have the Gustard H16 amp and am waiting for the X16 DAC and once that stack is complete I should be good for a while. I love the H16 and find myself getting lost in music with the Fostex TH-X00 Ebony headphones. I also really enjoy my ZMF Aeolus on tube amps. It's all good.

 

[memyselfandi]

I do have some HiRes music in 96/24 and to be honest I find it very difficult to distinguish them from the ripped CD counterparts at 44.1/16. I wish I could but I must not have sufficient hearing to hear the difference. I think the masters and the ways they were recorded make all the difference in the world though. There are so many rock recordings made in the 70's that blow away the quality of most modern tracks. It just amazes me how poorly most recording are done these days.

I have a small collection of SACD's that I ripped to DSD files a couple years back but I have a hard time finding SACD titles that I would be willing to pay more than about $25 for. There's a lot of classical stuff but I don't really get into that very much. I think it's cool that you are engaged in music production and focus on high resolution formats. If I could go back in time I would have learned to play keyboards and guitar and produce my own music. I do have access to Amazon's Hi-Res library but I really don't care for their interface. I keep debating whether I want to try Tidal. I'm just having a hard time with my life being a subscription. I do explore some on Bandcamp and support some artists on that platform. I do have to say that I have probably reached a point where my gear is plenty good and I have no reason to keep buying so-called upgrades. I have the Gustard H16 amp and am waiting for the X16 DAC and once that stack is complete I should be good for a while. I love the H16 and find myself getting lost in music with the Fostex TH-X00 Ebony headphones. I also really enjoy my ZMF Aeolus on tube amps. It's all good.

Wonderful, Tidal is somewhat clunky and limiting in comparison to Spotify and everything else way below that... I could not imagine how someone could not enjoy music (discovery) surfing on Spotify. Shure it is not lossless and yes Tidal sound quality is or can be superior... extra so, the Atmos mixes are a real treat, some are very special...

As for hearing the quality/resolution difference... well a good DAC (Airist Audio R-2R), 3 way speakers preferably powered (Dynaudio LYD 48...) and a good preamp (Schiit Freya+) are a fairly affordable way to enter the almost top quality listening area. There are probably a few cheaper ways but I like to only speak about what I know and use. Yes I have and there is much, much better audiophile gear.. but I think this is an easy way to get very near the top. Until I got there I did not hear or understand it myself... now I can hear 44.1/16 a mile away not the same as an MP3 but yes it has a distinct sonic signature... no matter the content or production. For me 96/24 is where details and fine resolution really start to show...

Anyway I suggest to do some discovering (preferably via Spotify) at some point... as it is worth doing just to see what is out there... but alas we are all different and enjoy different aspects of our lives.

 

[cyberthingy]

Excellent advice! I happen to have the Airist R-2R and I really like it. I don't use it exclusively but I do use it quite a bit. I switch between several different chains for the sake of variety. I'll have to give Spotify a try. Sounds like the interface lends itself to excellent music discovery. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[navin]

Guys, is there any news of the S16 and it's availability or is it dead? Thanks.

 

[memyselfandi]

I was told the S16 is coming in March (after the Chinese New Year).
Happy to report I did get my X16 a week ago, it has a very accurate and precise sound. The XLR balanced outs help... I have many (more expensive) DACs and none are as detailed. I use the it mostly for listening to Tidal - most of the time the mqa unfolding sounds amazing, I think it depends on the original album/song production, mqa can not make ordinary production sounds better if anything it may sounds worse as it could reveal the shortcomings (shit production). This is why Rolling Stones sounds terrible on SACD (HD)... they really did not play in time or in tune (most of the time). But I say that via the X16 most albums (streaming, SACD or CD) do sound a lot more (stereo separation) balanced and somewhat more open. A wonderful addition, I am very happy with the purchase.