Gustard A18 Balanced Desktop DAC Review

[Vasr]

If you include crossover in the dac how do you implement it?

That is the DAC maker's problem. I can provide market requirement.

Can you change crossover frequency? Continuous or a few selection of frequencies? And then do I also make a high pass for the rest of your speakers?

Minimum would be a high pass filter for the mains (assuming most subs have variable crossovers). The functionality would be whatever is in this $100 box
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/high-pass-filter.html

The one below I can agree might be a product on its own but most useful if it can be in the same box
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/high-end-crossover.html

It should be cheaper to add to an existing box than a separate box, not to mention stringing along multiple boxes.

A good model would be

Do I also design those two circuits with low noise in mind, meaning low resistance and high capacitance? Then I need something to drive the low resistance with current. Large capacitors with low distortion are bulky and expensive too.

So you are saying it is difficult to implement? Or is the above from just not bought into the idea?

DACs at $600 and above are bumping into DACs with DSP and bass management for not much more. Just an analog crossover would be fine like the above.

Being on the very top of the SINAD chart is less useful to some than the functionality. Have the above functionality but in the blue zone of SINAD would be fine. Nobody would complain. How much it would add to the cost is for manufacturers to say.

Have a switch to turn off the crossover for those that don't need it.

Eventually the desktop boys with their toys will grow up to add a sub.

 

[Koeitje]

You should ask how difficult for those Sub makers to add an analogue crossover. Though majority of them do.
If you include crossover in the dac how do you implement it? Can you change crossover frequency? Continuous or a few selection of frequencies? And then do I also make a high pass for the rest of your speakers? Do I also design those two circuits with low noise in mind, meaning low resistance and high capacitance? Then I need something to drive the low resistance with current. Large capacitors with low distortion are bulky and expensive too.
This can quickly turn into a complete new product on its own. If you just put a simple relatively noisy 1st order 80hz roll off, many people will complain even more by simply including it.

I think you are missing the point, the most important part is the high-pass filter for the stereo output so your mains don't have to handle the low-end anymore. That's also where you need the higher quality, because its easier to hear those distortions at higher frequencies. The sub can do the low pass on its own.

But seeing the measurements from the devices that include these filters I can only conclude that its very hard to do if you want very high performance.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I think you are missing the point, the most important part is the high-pass filter for the stereo output so your mains don't have to handle the low-end anymore. That's also where you need the higher quality, because its easier to hear those distortions at higher frequencies. The sub can do the low pass on its own.

All the other points remain.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

If you have a microwave, you can do a chocolate fondue.

 

[001]

Working on that just in case this gig does not work out.....

mmm! that'd be your first 24 carrot plated review

 

[restorer-john]

I think you are missing the point, the most important part is the high-pass filter for the stereo output so your mains don't have to handle the low-end anymore.

Rubbish. Not remotely important for most serious audiophiles, who either:

a) have a decent pair of full range mains and not a tiny, pokey little pair of two ways with no bottom end in the first place or
b) really don't care about shaking the walls and pretending that makes high fidelity reproduction. (hint: it doesn't)

The most important part of the spectrum to humans is the midrange. Get a pair of decent three or four ways. Forget the subterrranean BS and the crystalline HF and focus on what humans actually hear.

Subwoofers of today are merely over driven actual woofers of yesterday.

 

[ElNino]

Finally, a few filter types are provided:

View attachment 89937

How did they manage to mess up the low dispersion, short delay filter? That's not how it's supposed to measure on the AK4499... I wonder if they got a bad batch?

 

[Martin]

Very nice review. I like the look of Gustard products. Since @SHENZHENAUDIO has joined the site - any news on the Gustard H16?

Martin

 

[danadam]

I don't understand why the sample rate is highlighted in large letters rather than volume.

So that an audiophile knows when it should supposedly sound better. Otherwise they would have to rely on their ears only, which is just silly

 

[Xulonn]

This Gustard looks like a decent product. However, there's a "volition" pun buried somewhere in here with respect to Amir's audio measurements and gardening...

 

[Koeitje]

Rubbish. Not remotely important for most serious audiophiles, who either:

a) have a decent pair of full range mains and not a tiny, pokey little pair of two ways with no bottom end in the first place or
b) really don't care about shaking the walls and pretending that makes high fidelity reproduction. (hint: it doesn't)

The most important part of the spectrum to humans is the midrange. Get a pair of decent three or four ways. Forget the subterrranean BS and the crystalline HF and focus on what humans actually hear.

Subwoofers of today are merely over driven actual woofers of yesterday.

There are VERY few loudspeakers that can match a subwoofer in terms of distortion levels. There is a reason you can buy an 18" subwoofer that pairs nicely with your JBL M2 (which has a 15" woofer). Unless your 4 way loudspeaker has its biggest woofer crossed at 40hz a subwoofer will clean up the low-end considerably.

 

[waynel]

Not difficult at all.

analog crossover with 118dB SINAD is very difficult. better to have an extra DAC chip or use a multichannel chip and do the crossover digitally.

 

[waynel]

That is the DAC maker's problem. I can provide market requirement.

Minimum would be a high pass filter for the mains (assuming most subs have variable crossovers). The functionality would be whatever is in this $100 box
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/high-pass-filter.html

The one below I can agree might be a product on its own but most useful if it can be in the same box
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/high-end-crossover.html

It should be cheaper to add to an existing box than a separate box, not to mention stringing along multiple boxes.

A good model would be
View attachment 89964



So you are saying it is difficult to implement? Or is the above from just not bought into the idea?

DACs at $600 and above are bumping into DACs with DSP and bass management for not much more. Just an analog crossover would be fine like the above.

Being on the very top of the SINAD chart is less useful to some than the functionality. Have the above functionality but in the blue zone of SINAD would be fine. Nobody would complain. How much it would add to the cost is for manufacturers to say.

Have a switch to turn off the crossover for those that don't need it.

Eventually the desktop boys with their toys will grow up to add a sub.

All this is fine if you are shooting for an 80dB SINAD. For 118dB SINAD the crossover should be handled digitally with an extra channel or two of D/A conversion. Also XLR outputs are a must to take advantage of this level of performance. The MiniDSP SHD does this well but gives up the last view dB of SINAD. Okto DAC8 Pro with nanoDigi or SHD studio ( I have both of these in house waiting for my Okto DAC8) in front is the best solution that I have found but it would be nice to see a one box solution with 118dB SINAD.

 

[617]

There are VERY few loudspeakers that can match a subwoofer in terms of distortion levels. There is a reason you can buy an 18" subwoofer that pairs nicely with your JBL M2 (which has a 15" woofer). Unless your 4 way loudspeaker has its biggest woofer crossed at 40hz a subwoofer will clean up the low-end considerably.

I agree. I would love to see two outputs, one with a switchable high pass. LR4 at 60hz would suit most most setups.

I think the arguments for subwoofers in modest systems and subwoofer arrays in big systems don't need to be rehashed.

 

[infinitesymphony]

It seems like subwoofer considerations would be better handled a number of other ways post-DAC to allow for flexibility. An analog preamp, or by using subs that provide thru routing and incorporate their own analog or digital crossovers, or by using an audio interface and its matrix bussing features to send controllable and mixable outputs to one or more sub inputs.

 

[waynel]

It seems like subwoofer considerations would be better handled a number of other ways post-DAC to allow for flexibility. An analog preamp, or by using subs that provide thru routing and incorporate their own analog or digital crossovers, or by using an audio interface and its matrix bussing features to send controllable and mixable outputs to one or more sub inputs.

I disagree with this as I think there is no point in buying a 118dB SINAD DAC then putting your signal through a 80- 90dB (best case) analog preamp/crossover. High performance bass management needs to be done digitally before a high SINAD DAC.

 

[SDX-LV]

is that HDMI input?
To kill the soundbars, humanity needs good quality, affordable DACs with HDMI input to drive powered speakers and ideally also have Sub out as well. Parametric Eq or room correction of course is the ultimate feature set, if possible.
To my knowledge there is nothing that fits my description even if you can pay over 1000 USD. Massive, hot AVRs are the only option.

 

[Oklei]

is that HDMI input?

No. It's a i2s differential input that uses hdmi plugs and cables to get separated clock and data lines from the source to the dac rather than combine these in a spdif signal. Has nothing to do with hdmi audio as in Av receivers.

 

[617]

It seems like subwoofer considerations would be better handled a number of other ways post-DAC to allow for flexibility. An analog preamp, or by using subs that provide thru routing and incorporate their own analog or digital crossovers, or by using an audio interface and its matrix bussing features to send controllable and mixable outputs to one or more sub inputs.

Too many boxes. Source - dac -amp-speakers is already more boxes than strictly necessary.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Let's say Gustard builds the A19 DAC with two subwoofer outputs. What am I going to do for my 4.4 setup?

From a business perspective, there's not much reason to increase the bill of materials to solve a niche problem in a way that won't fully satisfy many of the users they're targeting, and that the majority of users will either not encounter or will solve elsewhere, for example by performing room correction on a computer before output.

That being said, I'd love a DAC with built-in room correction, HDMI input with surround decoding of all popular formats, and multichannel analog outputs for <$600.