Grounding issue with HiFiman Edition XV

[Norville]

I have a funny problem with my set up and it only occurs with my HiFiman Edition XV headphones. No other, including sensitive IEMs. Tried changing cable. Also, I have moved and it occurs in both my new place and the old. The sockets are all ungrounded from the wall.

I hear a hum but whenever I put my hand on my Matrix Element-i DAC streamer or any other equipment it disappears. There has to be some kind of ground potential difference occuring.

The Element-i has a grounding post. Would a grounding box connected to this post solve my issue?

There's also an iFi device that you put into a socket that creates "virtual ground". Any idea if this works?

One idea I had was to use a wire from the Element-i and just connect it simply to a radiator. Stupid idea?

I am willing to pay around 60 USD for a solution that really works.

Oh, I sent the headphones to the distributor but they couldn't find a problem with them so they sent them back without any fix.

 

[Norville]

Funny thing also, the sound changes when I move my head around with the headphones on. What the hell can it be?

 

[DVDdoug]

I would try a real ground to the radiator.

Also, if you are in the U.S. there's a good good chance that the screw attaching the cover-plate to the socket is grounded.

 

[Norville]

I would try a real ground to the radiator.

Also, if you are in the U.S. there's a good good chance that the screw attaching the cover-plate to the socket is grounded.

Managed to solve it by connecting a simple copper wire from the grounding post on the back of the element-i to a unpainted part of the radiator (the thermostat). So problem solved!

 

[winsome]

Just bought 2 sets of headphone and amp. My son noticed very faint humming sound and every time he touched the area around headphone jack, it disappeared. Also when we switched to iem, humming didnt appear. Myself couldnt hear it, probably because of age.

Could it be because of grounding issue? Or issue with the amp or headphone? Headphone itself is a Hifiman and Aune N7 amp on one set and Hifiman and Topping L 70/E 70V stack. If indeed it is a grounding issue, any ways to resolve? I dont have a place like a radiator to attach a copper wire and no grounding post in the amp itself.

Thank you

 

[solderdude]

Could it be because of grounding issue?

very likely

Or issue with the amp or headphone?

unlikely.

Headphone itself is a Hifiman and Aune N7 amp on one set and Hifiman and Topping L 70/E 70V stack. If indeed it is a grounding issue, any ways to resolve? I dont have a place like a radiator to attach a copper wire and no grounding post in the amp itself.

Thank you

When your house has all copper water piping that should also work.

When that is not available you can make use of the safety ground of a mains connection. You can make a 3-prong plug and ONLY connect the safety ground pin with a wire (yellow/green) and connect that wire to the metal enclosure of the the L70.

Make absolutely sure that that wire can never come in contact with the Live or Neutral prong.

 

[Berwhale]

Just bought 2 sets of headphone and amp. My son noticed very faint humming sound and every time he touched the area around headphone jack, it disappeared. Also when we switched to iem, humming didnt appear. Myself couldnt hear it, probably because of age.

Could it be because of grounding issue? Or issue with the amp or headphone? Headphone itself is a Hifiman and Aune N7 amp on one set and Hifiman and Topping L 70/E 70V stack. If indeed it is a grounding issue, any ways to resolve? I dont have a place like a radiator to attach a copper wire and no grounding post in the amp itself.

Thank you

 

[winsome]

very likely


unlikely.

When your house has all copper water piping that should also work.

When that is not available you can make use of the safety ground of a mains connection. You can make a 3-prong plug and ONLY connect the safety ground pin with a wire (yellow/green) and connect that wire to the metal enclosure of the the L70.

Make absolutely sure that that wire can never come in contact with the Live or Neutral pro

Thank you. The post above from berwhale sort out the topping amp issue. However, the aune uses adaptor and no such switch. Country I live in use 2 prong socket. If I change the cable from adapter to main to 3 prong and use 3 prong to 2 prong adapter, would that help? I have absolutely zero knowledge on electrical.

Thank you once again

 

[AnalogSteph]

The fact that using the ground lift on the L70 solved the issue would indicate that the offending mains leakage on the ground connection is coming from the source, whatever that is. If there's only 2-prong ungrounded outlets where you live (if I may have a guess: somewhere in Asia), how do you guys operate ordinary desktop PCs? Those are IEC Class I devices and as such technically relying on a functional mains protective earth in case anything ever were to go wrong. They also have substantial mains filter capacitance between live and neutral and PE, which would generate a lot more mains leakage than is generally desirable. (That is, of course, unless you just happen to have a medical grade ATX power supply installed, which seems unlikely.)

If you have absolutely nothing around that can serve as a ground for the offending mains leakage (technically considered a Functional Earth = FE), you're a bit screwed. Now clearly it doesn't take much to drain the voltage if just touching the case makes the hum go away, so I wonder whether one couldn't just take a piece of bare wire mesh to be attached to the wall or shoved under the carpet (maybe 0.5 m x 0.5 m at least) and solder a wire to that, and then terminate the wire with an RCA audio plug (outer shell only) which could then be plugged into the N7. It obviously wouldn't be the last word in resistance to ground by a long shot but may still get the job done well enough.

 

[solderdude]

Probably a USB isolator (when a PC/laptop is used) could possibly be some solution or connecting the digital signal part using Toslink ?
Maybe even an audio transformer in the signal path ?

Best to get a ground from somewhere (central heating, water piping) that is all metal and actually grounded and connect that to the chassis of the offending gear.

To detect if this is a problem you can do the following trick.
rub your finger over metal parts of the gear.
Once when totally disconnected from everything else (including mains) and then repeat while everything is connected and functioning.

When there is a clear difference in how the rubbing action feels (as if the finger 'bounces') then you clearly have some leakage currents messing things up.

 

[winsome]

Thank you for all the helpful responses. great community I must say

Yes, I live in Asia. Apparently after checking, the estate where i live, all houses dont have grounding

I have contacted handyman to install a grounding for the whole house from the main fuse, should solve the issue

On the lighter note, only my son and wife can pick this up, not me. Most likely because I have tinnitus so the hum is covered by the ringing. AAMOF it saved my wallet. Lol

Once again thank you. Will report back if the issue still there when the grounding installed

@AnalogSteph to answer your question about operating IEC device, its just taking a gamble and hope lightning didnt strike. And most if not all house is equipped with surge protection fuse

 

[Sharpi31]

I had a similar issue with the Edition XV connected to my RME ADI 2 Dac. Hum on both channels but louder in left ear. No issues with HD800, Para, HD600 etc in same setup.

Fix was to connect the unused dac RCA outputs to a grounded amplifier.

 

[winsome]

I had electrician installed grounding, and the hum still there and now even I can hear it/more pronounced however only on right channel. I now changed my setup to Gustard H26 amp and SMSL D400ES. Running through balanced from DAC to the amp. And every time I touched the amp or DAC, it goes away. I stumped now. Guess I have to live with this

To add, this hum goes in and out. Sometimes its quiet, but another time its pronounced

 

[solderdude]

I had electrician installed grounding, and the hum still there and now even I can hear it/more pronounced however only on right channel. I now changed my setup to Gustard H26 amp and SMSL D400ES. Running through balanced from DAC to the amp. And every time I touched the amp or DAC, it goes away. I stumped now. Guess I have to live with this

does it also happen when the DAC is connected to a source ?

So... only the DAC connected to the amp ?

You might need to connect the amp or DAC to the newly installed safety ground.

 

[winsome]

I'm listening to the rig as I type now. Now the hum goes away, but my son say its still there, but he is much younger than me so naturally his hearing is way more acute than mine plus like I mentioned above, I have tinnitus. About 30 mins ago when I posted the above, its really audible on right channel, but now its pretty much gone.

I use laptop as source, using spotify. And I did the grounding installation for the whole house, so theoretically all the electrical sockets for in the house should be grounded as well

 

[Speedskater]

Notes:
a) 'ground' with reference to day-to-day AC power quality (and hum & buzz) is the Safety Ground/Protective Earth circuit.
b) The attachment to Planet Earth is for safety, it has little to do with power quality.
c) Those 'grounding boxes' do nothing but take your money.

 

[winsome]

My son use multi meter to measure some of the sockets in the house, turns out some sockets are grounded and some are not. The one that's not and unfortunately is the socket I use to power the rig. So in conclusion, I'm screwed

 

[winsome]

Update: apparently the hum comes in when i plug the usb cable into the laptop. Wondering is it the problem with the laptop or the usb cable?

 

[antcollinet]

Update: apparently the hum comes in when i plug the usb cable into the laptop. Wondering is it the problem with the laptop or the usb cable?

Neither - ground noise is a system issue, not a component issue. Your laptop has no functional ground connection - so any leakage from the mains to the laptop chassis can only go down the ground connection to devices further downstream.

Your best solution would be to connect your laptop with toslink instead of USB. You can get inexpensive USB to toslink converters if your laptop doesne't have a toslink output.

 

[winsome]

but when i unplugged the amp and dac from the power socket, hum is there. Only when I unplugged it from laptop usb port, it goes away