GRIMM Audio LS1c & SB1 DSP Speaker Review

[Eelco Grimm]

Hi Eelco, great that you explain here. Question: where is the mic placed in this buiten drieweg measurement? I am wondering if the usual floor bounce cancellation is avoided by having the sub so close to the floor (asphalt or concrete in this case ) whilst crossing above the cancellation frequency?

cheers

Lars

Hi Lars, Well spotted... The mic was placed on the floor to avoid the comb filtering. We also made a measurement at listening height and the result is the same up till app. 150 Hz. So indeed at listening height there is still no floor bounce cancellation below the crossover of 70Hz, like you suggest. Of course inside a room the side wall reflections will spoil this party... All the best, Eelco.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Hi Lars, Well spotted... The mic was placed on the floor to avoid the comb filtering. We also made a measurement at listening height and the result is the same up till app. 150 Hz. So indeed at listening height there is still no floor bounce cancellation below the crossover of 70Hz, like you suggest. Of course inside a room the side wall reflections will spoil this party... All the best, Eelco.

Can you comment about the price? Thanks

 

[caught gesture]

Can you comment about the price? Thanks

What are you expecting him to say? The product is obviously targeted at people in a certain income bracket. You are obviously not in that bracket.

 

[Pearljam5000]

What are you expecting him to say? The product is obviously targeted at people in a certain income bracket. You are obviously not in that bracket.

I expect him to say his opinion about it because he owns the company and that's why his opinion is relevant.
That's why I asked him and not you, you're obviously not in that bracket

 

[BeeKay]

It's the same story as the shop windows of Prada, Gucci or Harry Winston. There are no price tags. If the price is important to you, you're standing in front of the wrong store.

 

[Pearljam5000]

It's the same story as the shop windows of Prada, Gucci or Harry Winston. There are no price tags. If the price is important to you, you're standing in front of the wrong store.

Even billionaires care about prices

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

This speaker doesn't have the appearance of expensive audio jewelry! Maybe in person?

 

[BeeKay]

Even billionaires care about prices

True. It’s just down a few steps of the priority list. Not as important as for others.

 

[Mart68]

I expect him to say his opinion about it because he owns the company and that's why his opinion is relevant.
That's why I asked him and not you, you're obviously not in that bracket

He does cover this in his response:

''Yes, I agree that this amount of attention to detail does increase the price of our products. But everybody in our team lives for achieving the best possible result, not for just finding a nice compromise. And that quality is what we love to offer our customers.''

 

[Heinrich]

... it may seem as if there is less bass, until you discover ...

Bass is in the ear of the beholder. As we've learned from especially IEM headphones (no room influence, common use), the peferrences are wide spread. With speakers the effective SPL may play a bigger role due to the Fletcher/Munson curve. I personally like a relatively lean bass more, accomplished by mids that are devoid of any scratchiness or muffling intermodulation.

I wonder why, in the spinorama, the 'ceiling bounce' shows the effect of crossober lobing. The vertical directivity plot is pretty much symmetric. I would have opted, and as a DIYer did in my own designs, to steer the radiation more upwards, as to serve a standing listener better. I consider this more worthwhile than perfect 'timing' between the drivers, which anyway is only accomplished at a certain vertical angle.

 

[Heinrich]

I wonder why, ...

... we see the ripples in the lower midrange. One may argue they originate in the wide baffle. But the relevant pathlengths don't match. Just curious, if the reconstruction of the effective soundfield by the Klippel NFS is correct.

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

... it may seem as if there is less bass, until you discover ...
"Bass is in the ear of the beholder"

The most inexperienced people talk about how great the bass is on a particular speaker - It's always a speaker with a lot of resonance, its in the ear of the beholder.
Some of these inexperienced people when shown, over time, a much lower resonant speaker start to appreciate and prefer their new discovery, It's in the ear of the beholder - same person. Over the years, if motivated, they move towards lower and lower resonance. Well, maybe there is some that actually don't like no resonance, cant say for certain.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Can you comment about the price? Thanks

PMFJI
It is R&D man-hours multiplied by cost per hour plus overhead cost multiplied by the number of years in development plus manufacturing cost times the number made divided by the number sold.
In a product like this the piece part cost of the drivers will be a negligible part of the price IME.

Priced lower maybe more would be sold but also maybe not enough to cover costs. It is very difficult to get this balance right for high tech products like this.

I would buy them if I were likely to live long enough to appreciate them

 

[Pearljam5000]

PMFJI
It is R&D man-hours multiplied by cost per hour plus overhead cost multiplied by the number of years in development plus manufacturing cost times the number made divided by the number sold.
In a product like this the piece part cost of the drivers will be a negligible part of the price IME.

Priced lower maybe more would be sold but also maybe not enough to cover costs. It is very difficult to get this balance right for high tech products like this.

I would buy them if I were likely to live long enough to appreciate them

We are alive now, that is the only thing that guides me
If I were to think about how many years I have left I wouldn't buy anything

 

[Roy_D]

Looks and measures superb and now I have this vague and nonsense sense of pride that it was made in the country I live lol


That subwoofer would look wáy too tempting a spot to claim for my cat though

 

[a4eaudio]

I expect him to say his opinion about it because he owns the company and that's why his opinion is relevant.
...

As the owner of the company, he probably thinks the price is too low!!

 

[Ilkless]

Could you please explain what you mean by ´brute-force resistive´ directivity control? Horns, waveguides?

If I understand you correctly, I would intuitively file a wide baffle under ´brute-force resistive´ as well, as it is doing exactly that: forcing soundwaves into a certain three-dimensional dispersion pattern. It is just a flat one and the resulting pattern comes closer to half-spherical shape. Which is indeed an advantage in terms of evenness of dispersion over frequency bands, but can also be a disadvantage if you take the listening room, its side walls and resulting discrete reflections into account.

An interesting question evolving from that is how sufficient and even midrange directivity can be achieved at all, without using ´resistive´ or ´destructive´ approaches. In my understanding, this would be a call for large diaphragm area, no-baffle concepts such as line sources.

I mean resistive vents and/or using driver cancellation which introduce complexity, nonlinear distortion and SPL limitations.

 

[Frank Dernie]

We are alive now, that is the only thing that guides me
If I were to think about how many years I have left I wouldn't buy anything

I am 75.
I bought my current speakers, which still sound great to me every day, in 1997 (iirc).
I am unlikely to live to 103 and am not disappointed by what I have

I have been tempted by the Genelecs and bought a 8341A to hear what the fuss was about but the bigger ones are, to my eye, unacceptably hideous so I didn't get the 8351B/W371 I was going to get but use the 8341 as a centre channel on the rare occasion I watch a film.

Edit - you don't buy anything anyway!

 

[Robbo99999]

I expect him to say his opinion about it because he owns the company and that's why his opinion is relevant.
That's why I asked him and not you, you're obviously not in that bracket

He doesn't have to answer, and it's just that kind of product that we know is silly priced, so anything he says wouldn't justify it to us anyway, it's just that kind of product.

 

[Pearljam5000]

He doesn't have to answer, and it's just that kind of product that we know is silly priced, so anything he says wouldn't justify it to us anyway, it's just that kind of product.

I didn't say he has to answer