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GRIMM Audio LS1c & SB1 DSP Speaker Review

Rate this speaker system:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 10 3.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 20 6.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 115 36.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 173 54.4%

  • Total voters
    318
Blind review thread...
Imagine how different this thread would be if Amir's post #1 referred to Speaker #051925, didn't include a picture of the speaker or the price. Just the objective data and subjective review comments.

Wait 7 days for the thread to discuss the actual results, then post the details of the actual speaker.
 
No, absolutely I don't.
I think you overestimate how much subjective and objective performance all that scientific and technical work actually delivers.

This thread is populated by people raising their eyebrows at some aspects of the performance of this system. And also the value (for the money) of it.
The company should be praised for daring to send their speakers in for testing obviously knowing that even with such good measurements as tested the forum feedback would be dominated by so called "know all eye brow raisers" who obviously know how to be critical (from the sidelines) but would never be able themselves to get such a product realised with everything that goes with it.

They must have debated this issue but have shown balls by sending the speakers for review regardless the risk being hunted down by "The Borg".
 
Blind review thread...
Imagine how different this thread would be if Amir's post #1 referred to Speaker #051925, didn't include a picture of the speaker or the price. Just the objective data and subjective review comments.

Wait 7 days for the thread to discuss the actual results, then post the details of the actual speaker.
For what purpose? 7 days later we'd still have the same conclusion: a competent speaker with unique aesthetics and broad dispersion, but which still only makes sense for those with unlimited budgets and no cares that there are lots of equivalent, if not better, options for much less.
 
The company should be praised for daring to send their speakers in for testing obviously knowing that even with such good measurements as tested the forum feedback would be dominated by so called "know all eye brow raisers" who obviously know how to be critical (from the sidelines) but would never be able themselves to get such a product realised with everything that goes with it.

They must have debated this issue but have shown balls by sending the speakers for review regardless the risk being hunted down by "The Borg".
I've read the whole thread. I don't see that it's been dominated by "know all eye brow raisers."
I think the speaker performance looks just fine. But the cost is quite high.
As usual, the comments that have the most weight are from those who actually have experience with the system and have done some listening.

There are a few ridiculous comments in this thread. But I've noticed that happens in all speaker discussions on this forum.
I don't know who The Borg is.....and why they would be hunting down something. That just seems silly rhetoric, to me.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. People believe what they want to believe.
 
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I've read the whole thread. I don't see that it's been dominated by "know all eye brow raisers."
I think the speaker performance looks just fine. But the cost is quite high.
As usual, the comments that have the most weight are from those who actually have experience with the system and have done some listening.

There are a few ridiculous comments in this thread. But I've noticed that happens in all speaker discussions on this forum.
I don't know who The Borg is.....and why they would be hunting down something. That just seems silly rhetoric, to me.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. People believe what they want to believe.
The reviewer who started this thread and who has done countless measurements, and no known "friend" of speaker companies and is knowledgeable, concludes that measurements are virtually as good as can be (outstanding). In your opinion those measurements are "just fine", in other words neutral or mildly positive but not particularly outstanding or impressive.

I rest my case, you're part of the collective. Watch Star Trek for better understanding of the Borg/the collective.

I wonder how many responders on this thread actually have experience with these speakers, that would be indeed interesting to know, maybe 2 or 3?
 
I wonder how many responders on this thread actually have experience with these speakers, that would be indeed interesting to know, maybe 2 or 3?
I counted two.

But, if only people who have direct experience with a product are allowed to discuss it, ASR would be a pretty boring forum. :)
Your point is taken.
 
The reviewer who started this thread and who has done countless measurements, and no known "friend" of speaker companies and is knowledgeable, concludes that measurements are virtually as good as can be (outstanding). In your opinion those measurements are "just fine", in other words neutral or mildly positive but not particularly outstanding or impressive.

I rest my case,..
The main point of ASR is to present OBJECTIVE measurements, which Amir has done in post #1. If he expected everyone to just accept his subjective interpretation of that data and his listening impressions, he would have just got a job reviewing for Stereophile or What Hi-Fi.

Davey has this have summarized pretty fair - these speakers look good ("fine") but are quite expensive.
 
The reviewer who started this thread and who has done countless measurements, and no known "friend" of speaker companies and is knowledgeable, concludes that measurements are virtually as good as can be (outstanding). In your opinion those measurements are "just fine", in other words neutral or mildly positive but not particularly outstanding or impressive.

I rest my case, you're part of the collective. Watch Star Trek for better understanding of the Borg/the collective.

I wonder how many responders on this thread actually have experience with these speakers, that would be indeed interesting to know, maybe 2 or 3?
I don't know why you & some others in this thread have a problem pointing out flaws in the speaker, it's not perfect, and it's an expensive product - the bass is it's weakness, it's not a perfect speaker, and you could say the response is quite sawtooth from 350Hz - 2000Hz if you're being picky. So it's expensive and has a flaw or two, so why have a problem that people point out it's deficiencies. It's totally normal and not out of order to express perceived issues.
 
I don't know why you & some others in this thread have a problem pointing out flaws in the speaker,...
I find the speaker very interesting for personal reasons, because I had followed its genesis - the idea is older.

The measurements and evaluation also show anomalies that call themselves into question - in a positive way.

Bass: as clarified, it is to be seen as in free-field, and then it is simply perfect. When I adjust for good, rich bass reproduction in the room at home, I regularly measure a slope in the bass in the near (~free) field that has a similarly decreasing amplitude. Studio monitors with a flat, then kinking response are held against it. These are delivered with maximum output down to the reflex resonance, and expect a room adjustment, i.e. a regular reduction of the bass by the studio technician.

However, you could also consider whether the in person listening test could be supplemented with a brief measurement of the actual in-room frequency response.

The mids show these ripples that no other loudspeaker does. They are strange. It's not too far-fetched to suspect that the NFS has its problems here. A relatively small loudspeaker in a large baffle. At the frequencies in question, the NFS has to rely entirely on the mathematical development (modelling) of the effective sound field in Hankel functions. The pitch is too low to supplement/replace the Hankel mechanics with gated measurements. It's a wild guess, logically. I don't see this kind of waviness in other measurements of the same loudspeaker. I see nothing in the design, that could be accused to generate it.

The very wide omnidirectional radiation could have influenced the subjective evaluation, which is made with only one loudspeaker (mono). Could it be that the strong diffusion of the sound played an excessive role here? To me, a single, rather narrowly radiating loudspeaker always seems a little thin, sometimes even sharp, and also washed out. A more indirect dispersion eliminates these disadvantages. The design could therefore call into question the rule that loudspeakers are best tested in mono. At the very least, the variable directivity should be taken into critical account. (I am aware that in typically non-optimized rooms, the even worse bass reproduction in mono also plays a role).

Nice looking, the best invention since sliced bread for many, too expensive for a few, anyway a good testbed. Once my Steinway D will be delivered, I'm going to mate it with these ;-)
 
The mids show these ripples that no other loudspeaker does. They are strange. It's not too far-fetched to suspect that the NFS has its problems here.

I am also a bit reserved when it comes to NFS results under very specific circumstances posing severe problems even under true anechoic conditions (such as active cardioid cancellation, very very big diaphragms or sound sources out-of-phase being far away from each other so at 1m I would not expect anything like an even wavefront). Whenever the d.i. is abruptly below 0dB, I take a closer look.

That is not the case here. Everything looks consistent. Ripples might be a side effect of lots of narrow-banded EQ corrections being applied based on a measurement at a different position or with different smoothing.
 
Bruh now we're blaming the NFS for a speaker's jagged response in a certain frequency band?

Lol what?!
 
Davey has this have summarized pretty fair - these speakers look good ("fine") but are quite expensive.
Hey, at least we are seeing super high-end speakers that are actually well-engineered and stand up to scrutiny. That's a positive change from high-end speakers that measure like absolute garbage.
 
Hey, at least we are seeing super high-end speakers that are actually well-engineered and stand up to scrutiny. That's a positive change from high-end speakers that measure like absolute garbage.
A big problem is that we never get to see any measurements of high-end speakers. Just lots of superlatives describing the “sound”. Kudos to Grimm Audio in volunteering for an independent set of measurements using a standardised set of metrics. If only other companies were so brave!
 
A big problem is that we never get to see any measurements of high-end speakers. Just lots of superlatives describing the “sound”. Kudos to Grimm Audio in volunteering for an independent set of measurements using a standardised set of metrics. If only other companies were so brave!
Stereophile, Hifi news, Audio Magazin, Stereoplay etc. regularly publish measurments of high-end speakers...
 
Stereophile, Hifi news, Audio Magazin, Stereoplay etc. regularly publish measurments of high-end speakers...
Using The Most Beautiful Speakers in the World thread as a guide, what percentage would you guess have had their products independently measured? I’d guess not very many. You are of course correct that measurements are available of some high-end speakers through the publications listed.
 
Using The Most Beautiful Speakers in the World thread as a guide, what percentage would you guess have had their products independently measured? I’d guess not very many. You are of course correct that measurements are available of some high-end speakers through the publications listed.
At Stereophile's case at least most of the measurements correlate with what we see here.

And a lot of bigger speakers (cause that's the problem here at ASR, not the expensive but the bigger) which their design makes sense shows it too in their measurements.
 
Bruh now we're blaming the NFS for a speaker's jagged response in a certain frequency band?
Thanks for picking it up at least. I'm not an engineer, my professional training was far from that. And I would never dare. So I'm not blaming the machine. Did you read this great piece:

The sound field is developed in spherical harmonics (I don't write papers, so my English is even worse in those things, sorry). And then: "What, if?"

Lol what?!
Exactly. The speaker in question is a bit special. What, if? The results don't match less sophisticated methods. If the NFS is right, well, the LS1 has a problem. But I cannot make out from what.
 
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