Grimani Systems Rixos-L Review (Active DSP Speaker)

[sarumbear]

I think what you describe is certainly about the best that can be had. And likely enough to make a determination about a specific number of options. Location/travel is the limiting factor. And 'imposing' on others, walking into their living rooms to listen. Someone who allows that is a decent person, for sure. I don't know that I'd allow it. So they are more friendly than me. I'd certainly bring along a bottle of decent Scotch whiskey to leave with the home owner, if I ever made the trip.

The invites are always arranged by the dealers/installers who very often have a very friendly and naturally trusting relationship with their customers. That is why there is no imposition. It is more like lets meet a fellow audiophile.

Related, I know that Siegfried Linkwitz had a list of folks how let others listen to his loudspeaker setup in their homes. In fact, when he was alive he rented out a vacation cottage with his system, for prospective buyers, I believe.

R.I.P. he was a great man, also a great friend to me from 1979 till his death.

At the 1979 AES Convention I asked him for an opportunity to visit his house in order to hear the one-off 2.1 system that he explained in Wireless World May 1978 Issue. A few months later I visited him in SF armed with a Turkish Rug. You can see the rug on all photographs of his living room. We stayed friends till the end and I was lucky enough to audition all his designs, at his house.

 

[Robbo99999]

That's what I said, no?

Yeah, cool, I said it too! Can't remember if I read every single sentence you wrote in your EQ post - I think I mainly interpret your graphs and quickly scan your filters. I was essentially emphasising what I thought was the main take home point from your graphs you presented - the difference in tonality was striking. Is that OK?

 

[anmpr1]

Why wouldn't they care?

It is is a good question. But a lot of it depends on propinquity. Especially at this level of expense and exclusivity. With that in mind, I'd ask, how many different showrooms you encountered prior to buying your home theater? Do you have a lot of dealers in your Southampton area that you can demo different installations? Many homes letting you visit? Enough to run down most of the major brands? I know you mentioned a couple. Surely larger cities are likely better served, that much is certain.

In my area there are four outfits:

One doesn't list any brands they sell. Customers are supposed to call for an appointment in their home, and then get the lowdown.

Another lists about fifty brands. In the heydays of hi-fi, I don't recall any dealers that actually stocked and sold fifty brands of anything. But their Website looked promising so I clicked. In the speaker department they have the franchise for Sunfire, JBL Pro, Revel, JBL Synthesis, Origin Acoustics, Revel, PMC, Rel, Paradigm, JL Audio, Artisan/Savant. What do you suppose the odds are that this small storefront (weged between the Benjamin Moore paint store and a fabric shop) actually has a good selection of each of the brands, for audition? It is near Whole Foods. Waifu wants to go grocery shopping next week, so I'll do a drive by and check it out. I could be surprised.

Another installer inhabits a section of aluminum warehouse, next to the College Hunks Hauling Junk operation. They list Phase Technology and Oppo (!) in their brand portfolio. That sure instills confidence.

And then there's the 'installation experts' (it says here) at Best Buy.

My point being, unless you are in a pretty large city, you probably aren't going to have many options for an actual demonstration of different speakers. Even if that means going to someone's house to listen, after they get home from work and put the kids down. What you will likely get is a salesman who will first ask about your budget, and if it is over a certain threshold he will show up at your home with some brochures.

Strangely, if you go to the Grimani Systems site, they don't even list any dealers. You can learn about their CEDIA awards, and '100 Years of Experience' (which looks like the three boomer principals). One of them is Manny LaCarrubba, who certainly knows loudspeakers. Manny is responsible for the waveguide you find in some of the exceptional sounding B&O products, licensed from Sausalito Audio, which he founded. From his work alone, I'd be inclined to purchase sound unheard... if I could not find a good used set of B&O 5 at a discount.

I'd be happy to learn of ASR members home theater buying experiences, especially at the higher end, working with installers. How many installations they demoed, did they have to travel distances to investigate, did they go to anyone's house and check out an already installed system, or did they buy from a brochure, or just leave it to their contractor if it was an addition? The ASR crowd tends to be 'hands on', so I don't know if they would, as a group, be representative of folks who might drop high five or six figures on an installed set-up.

I'll admit, it's not something I can relate to very well. But I'm willing to learn how others do it.

 

[FeddyLost]

These speakers have too low value per money spent for fully active DSP speaker with such low WAF.
Pair of those cost like Perlisten S7t and if we remember that pair of Powersoft Mezzo 604a costs around 3k ...
It's acceptable only for big turnkey installations, not for dedicated enthusiasts.

 

[beeface]

I’ve used that Powersoft software for work. Great functionality, absolutely woeful UI and documentation

 

[sarumbear]

These speakers have too low value per money spent for fully active DSP speaker with such low WAF.

Does your wife has x-Ray? These speaker’s are designed to be installed behind a screen. Nobody will see them!

 

[sarumbear]

It is is a good question. But a lot of it depends on propinquity. Especially at this level of expense and exclusivity. With that in mind, I'd ask, how many different showrooms you encountered prior to buying your home theater? Do you have a lot of dealers in your Southampton area that you can demo different installations? Many homes letting you visit? Enough to run down most of the major brands? I know you mentioned a couple. Surely larger cities are likely better served, that much is certain.

In my area there are four outfits:

One doesn't list any brands they sell. Customers are supposed to call for an appointment in their home, and then get the lowdown.

Another lists about fifty brands. In the heydays of hi-fi, I don't recall any dealers that actually stocked and sold fifty brands of anything. But their Website looked promising so I clicked. In the speaker department they have the franchise for Sunfire, JBL Pro, Revel, JBL Synthesis, Origin Acoustics, Revel, PMC, Rel, Paradigm, JL Audio, Artisan/Savant. What do you suppose the odds are that this small storefront (weged between the Benjamin Moore paint store and a fabric shop) actually has a good selection of each of the brands, for audition? It is near Whole Foods. Waifu wants to go grocery shopping next week, so I'll do a drive by and check it out. I could be surprised.

Another installer inhabits a section of aluminum warehouse, next to the College Hunks Hauling Junk operation. They list Phase Technology and Oppo (!) in their brand portfolio. That sure instills confidence.

And then there's the 'installation experts' (it says here) at Best Buy.

My point being, unless you are in a pretty large city, you probably aren't going to have many options for an actual demonstration of different speakers. Even if that means going to someone's house to listen, after they get home from work and put the kids down. What you will likely get is a salesman who will first ask about your budget, and if it is over a certain threshold he will show up at your home with some brochures.

Strangely, if you go to the Grimani Systems site, they don't even list any dealers. You can learn about their CEDIA awards, and '100 Years of Experience' (which looks like the three boomer principals). One of them is Manny LaCarrubba, who certainly knows loudspeakers. Manny is responsible for the waveguide you find in some of the exceptional sounding B&O products, licensed from Sausalito Audio, which he founded. From his work alone, I'd be inclined to purchase sound unheard... if I could not find a good used set of B&O 5 at a discount.

I'd be happy to learn of ASR members home theater buying experiences, especially at the higher end, working with installers. How many installations they demoed, did they have to travel distances to investigate, did they go to anyone's house and check out an already installed system, or did they buy from a brochure, or just leave it to their contractor if it was an addition? The ASR crowd tends to be 'hands on', so I don't know if they would, as a group, be representative of folks who might drop high five or six figures on an installed set-up.

I'll admit, it's not something I can relate to very well. But I'm willing to learn how others do it.

First a clarification. USA is huge compared to England where I live. England is smaller than Louisiana and slightly larger than Mississippi. The capital, London is just 80 miles away from my town. People commute daily there. New York to Philadelphia is further away and it’s a different state with different tax rates even.

We seem to have much more choice within reach then Americans have. Obviously, some urban centres are exceptional but in the grand scheme of things if you live outside big urban areas your choice of showroom, etc. are very limited.

In England a dealer that is selling a big bucks room will go 100+ miles without a question. Around London we have many HT installers that install £50,000+ rooms every week and employ 50+ people.

I demoed four dealer showrooms before deciding my first set of speakers, JBL Synthesis. I then demoed a KEF demo room at their factory and visited two customer rooms before deciding to update JBLs to KEFs.

 

[Doodski]

I then demoed a KEF demo room at their factory and visited two customer rooms before deciding to update JBLs to KEFs.

Very cool to have the KEF showroom available for auditioning speakers.

 

[sarumbear]

Very cool to have the KEF showroom available for auditioning speakers.

There are quite a few but not all have all in-wall models in demo. KEF factory is just 100 miles away where by appointment they can demonstrate all their products.

 

[anmpr1]

After thinking about it, with this kind of total package installation, you're really in to (or approaching) a cost is no object situation. Because you're also looking at designing a dedicated room, and all that goes with that. What color leather do you want the reclining seats? I mean, if you can spend an FDR Wilson (or more) just to watch a home movie, that's on such a different level than whatever most people will ever contemplate. If I had that kind of money to spend on a home movie set-up, I'd just go the brochure route. Seriously. I'd call up Amir, or Manny, or whomever, and let them make the all the moves. I mean, you have to build something like that mostly based on trust. It's not like ordering a receiver and home speaker package from Crutchfield, and then sending it all back and trying something else if you aren't satisfied.

I'm reminded of the Mark Levinson Cello operation:

The Cello Demo And Why It Worked So Well

Cello had a unique philosophy as high end audiophile company. They operated differently than traditional brands and it worked. It worked very well. This is an exploration as to why it did.

audiophilereview.com

 

[sarumbear]

After thinking about it, with this kind of total package installation, you're really in to (or approaching) a cost is no object situation. Because you're also looking at designing a dedicated room, and all that goes with that. What color leather do you want the reclining seats? I mean, if you can spend an FDR (or more) just to watch a home movie, that's on such a different level than whatever most people will ever contemplate. If I had that kind of money to spend on a home movie set-up, I'd just go the brochure route. Seriously. I'd call up Amir, or Manny, or whomever, and let them make the all the moves. I mean, you have to build something like that mostly based on trust. It's not like ordering a receiver and home speaker package from Crutchfield, and then sending it all back and trying something else if you aren't satisfied.

I'm reminded of the Mark Levinson Cello operation:

The Cello Demo And Why It Worked So Well

Cello had a unique philosophy as high end audiophile company. They operated differently than traditional brands and it worked. It worked very well. This is an exploration as to why it did.

audiophilereview.com

View attachment 214476

Some selects their components to form a Hi-Fi setup, some even build their own speakers, whereas some just buys a B&O system and lives happily. We are all different.

My room doesn’t look like a standard HT. it’s a large living room with integrated dining room and kitchen like many of you may have. The difference is it’s acoustically and electronically processed so well that according to the dealers who visited classed it as possibly the best HT they have seen. That is my joy.

 

[amirm]

Folks, anyone buying a whole system of these speakers will get the company's advice behind it. And that advice, how to use and tune them for your theater, is incredibly valuable. Unlike an acoustician guessing about your speakers, this company knows that well and can provide a great asset in getting great sound of your room+speakers. So please don't compare this to stand-alone companies. They are a different animal.

 

[sarumbear]

Folks, anyone buying a whole system of these speakers will get the company's advice behind it. And that advice, how to use and tune them for your theater, is incredibly valuable. Unlike an acoustician guessing about your speakers, this company knows that well and can provide a great asset in getting great sound of your room+speakers. So please don't compare this to stand-alone companies. They are a different animal.

Very true. It would be stupid to spend money on this level of equipment and disregard advice from people who install them day in and day out. Designing a HT is like designing a loudspeaker where loudspeakers like these are the drivers. It’s an equipment by itself.

 

[Bartl007]

Looks like an excellent speaker that despite all the naysayers is actually competitively priced for what it does.

Designing for outboard Active amplification /DSP (remote rack mounting) has important benefits for theater applications where noise floor/heat gain from electronics /light pollution from status LEDs are best handled in this manner with the passive speaker in room and everything else in an equipment room outside the listening space. Actively driven topology avoids inconsistency/thermal issues with passive crossover components and ability to get next to perfect driver integration.

The only competitors I'm aware of in this high SPL and sound quality category would be JBL M2, genelec S360, and ascendo ccrm12-mkII. Getting 105dB peaks at your second row of seats 18-20ft from the loudspeaker isn't easy (or cheap)

Agreed with other posts that the real secret sauce is in the calibration and room planning services of Tony's outfit. I'm confident many of his rooms would embarrass most DIY efforts at high fidelity 2 channel perfection.

 

[Colonel7]

I watched one of his appearances on AH on subs and setup and he was really interesting. I also remember them shooting the breeze about how he's a pilot now and flies himself to customer sites bc it's easier than flying commercial most times

 

[FeddyLost]

These speaker’s are designed to be installed behind a screen. Nobody will see them!

Exactly. Due to this use cases are limited and resale value is very small.
That's why I said they was made for installers only. So, no end-user should measure and evaluate them as there are some very strong competitors.

 

[Spocko]

I believe this speaker also has a DSP and along with a program like REW you get the same capability of GLM.

That's what I meant - implementation of this DSP/REW feels less sophisticated and more time consuming than the current generation of GLM

 

[sarumbear]

That's what I meant - implementation of this DSP/REW feels less sophisticated and more time consuming than the current generation of GLM

Not necessarily true for the installer who had been doing this week in week out. He may well prefer this over GLM, which has a bit too pretty UI with all those hexagons.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I recently paid almost $20,000 $30,000 for my new LCR speakers.

Do you adopt? I'm available if you do.......

 

[Spkrdctr]

I imagine that folks who are in to movies are more interested in having something that will shake their chandeliers when the Death Star explodes, than being concerned with 'front to back depth' and 'imaging'. Dialog recognition is probably important. I've listened to a few systems (friends) where dialog is difficult to determine, due to all the other stuff going on in the soundtrack. I don't know if that is a system limitation, or how the DVD was mixed. Most dialog is banal, so I guess it's not that big a deal in most movies.

Yup, Our resident custom installer (Amir) can attest to some very poorly done home theaters. You get a customer who wants lots of boom and rumble with the explosions. Also, they want a lot of "surround" sound action so you have to boost the sides and rears after you just boosted the subs. Then you realize that you can't get the front L/R surround sound as it is being drowned out by the sides and rears (plus with Atmos height effects). So, the L/R gets boosted. So, what is left? That poor center was never boosted and all of your dialog is coming from there. So, you have to boost the center now too. The funny thing is now that all channels are boosted lets say 5 to 7db all the way around, you could knock them all back by what you boosted them (keeping your levels correct) and then just use the volume knob to control the volume. Now, this is a VERY over simplified example. But, you can see why you can listen to a friends surround sound system and think, "that doesn't sound right, no dialog"! So much to mess up in a nice Denon or Yamaha AVR.