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Grid Storage Systems for Renewable Energy - Technology and Projects (No Politics)

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MediumRare

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Renewable energy sources such and wind and solar have now achieved "lowest levelized cost" status, producing electricity more cheaply than any fossil fuel option. Their full cost of production is also lower than that of current nuclear options once capital costs are considered (the "levelized" aspect). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelized_cost_of_electricity

A significant drawback of these sources, however, is the inevitable natural variation in output: solar only works on sunny days, the wind does not always blow. Thus, two options for complementary power "sources" are in use and development to dynamically balance loads and energy production requirements:

1. Base load electricity production from fossil fuels and nuclear (advantage: they exist today; disadvantage: higher cost, problematic externalities)
2. Grid storage systems, such as batteries, pumped hydro, gravity, sodium heat storage, compressed air, hydrogen/ammonia/methane by electrolysis (advantage: clean, potentially low cost; disadvantage: unfamiliar, potential lower efficiencies) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

This thread provides a venue for discussion of grid storage technology, innovation, testing, engineering issues, and specific projects under development. This may include at residential, industrial, and full grid scale.

Please refrain from commenting on the political aspects of this topic.

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Willem

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There are two time scales involved: the daily cycle and the yearly cycle. The latter is probably the hardest, particularly for those of us living far away from the equator. Winter is the season of high electricity consumption and low pv productivity.
 
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LTig

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I think water storage is the way to go because it also helps to deliver water in case of short supply which will come in future summers when 50 % of our glaciers are gone.
 

SIY

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Renewable energy sources such and wind and solar have now achieved "lowest levelized cost" status, producing electricity more cheaply than any fossil fuel option. Their full cost of production is also lower than that of current nuclear options once capital costs are considered (the "levelized" aspect). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelized_cost_of_electricity

A significant drawback of these sources, however, is the inevitable natural variation in output: solar only works on sunny days, the wind does not always blow. Thus, two options for complementary power "sources" are in use and development to dynamically balance loads and energy production requirements:

1. Base load electricity production from fossil fuels and nuclear (advantage: they exist today; disadvantage: higher cost, problematic externalities)
2. Grid storage systems, such as batteries, pumped hydro, gravity, sodium heat storage, compressed air, hydrogen/ammonia/methane by electrolysis (advantage: clean, potentially low cost; disadvantage: unfamiliar, potential lower efficiencies) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

This thread provides a venue for discussion of grid storage technology, innovation, testing, engineering issues, and specific projects under development. This may include at residential, industrial, and full grid scale.

Please refrain from commenting on the political aspects of this topic.

View attachment 255611
What's the source of the data for that graph?

edit: NM, found it, thanks. https://www.lazard.com/media/451419/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-140.pdf explains some of the oddness in that graph.
 
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NTK

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MediumRare

MediumRare

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There are twp time scales involved: the daily cycle and the yearly cycle. The latter is probably the hardest, particularly for those of us living far away from the equator. Winter is the season of high electricity consumption and low pv productivity.
Willem, yes, there is seasonality, but it's not obvious and certainly varies by location. Here in Illinois our biggest peak of consumption is in the Summer (air conditioning) which is also the peak for solar production. We have a second, lesser, peak in January/February from heating and lighting. Most of our heating is from natural gas so it's the blowers pulling the amps. But then winter is our windiest period, so there is less monthly fluctuation in renewable production than you might expect.

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JoachimStrobel

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This a graph from the German site
it is in German but the translation is easy:
Yellow is solar which is a joke for this time of the years, despite the billions sunk into it.
Wind is in blue. Okish, but when their is no wind one has to burn what burns.
Can one store that amount in batteries? I dare not to make a calculation.
Only nuclear could help. Sadly we are exporting the surplus wind power to France who can not fire up their nuclear plants believing that maintenance is a word for uninspiring people such as Germans.
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MediumRare

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Wind is in blue. Okish, but when their is no wind one has to burn what burns.
Can one store that amount in batteries? I dare not to make a calculation.
Only nuclear could help.

The purpose of this thread is for us to share information about how your questions are best answered. Of course, others have done the calculations you dare not make.
 

Marc v E

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Basically batteries are good for stabalising the grid and short term power peaks and dips, like for a day or so.

From what I've read so far using excess energy to pump water and releasing it back through a generator, when energy is needed, seems like the easiest solution. Iirc energy can be supplied this way for several weeks. That should be enough.
 
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MediumRare

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Basically batteries are good for stabalising the grid and short term power peaks and dips, like for a day or so.

From what I've read so far using excess energy to pump water and releasing it back through a generator, when energy is needed, seems like the easiest solution. Iirc energy can be supplied this way for several weeks. That should be enough.
Sure, but locations are in short supply geographically. Sunny deserts and windy plains, let alone offshore the Netherlands or Denmark, have low inventory of valleys.
 

Marc v E

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Sure, but locations are in short supply geographically. Sunny deserts and windy plains, let alone offshore the Netherlands or Denmark, have low inventory of valleys.
In the Netherlands we could use a big lake right in the middle of our country. Doesn't have to be high if it's wide enough. Could build a dike around it if necessary.

Nederland-schoolkaart-461.jpg

Or you could use the energy to lift concrete blocks on a crane and generate energy by letting gravity pull on the block and using a generator.
Iirc this is done in Switzerland.
 
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"There’s an enormous amount of solar and wind power under development across the country.... A growing share of this capacity under development includes batteries that can be used to store and shift that variable clean energy to when grids need it the most."

"Nearly 1,400 gigawatts [NB: equal to about 1,500 nuclear power reactors, of which the US currently has 93] of solar, wind and energy-storage projects are now backed up in U.S. transmission interconnection queues. That would be enough capacity to make the U.S. grid 80 percent clean by the end of the decade, according to an April report from Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

"But the prospects for this pipeline of projects actually coming online are growing increasingly dim. Over the last few years, the time it takes to secure an interconnection agreement for a new project has stretched from an average of 1.5 years to more than 3.5 years."

This map shows wind, solar and energy storage projects being developed or built in the U.S. as of the third quarter of 2022.
Map of wind, solar and energy-storage projects in development or construction as of the third quarter of 2022 (American Clean Power Association)
 

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Timcognito

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MediumRare

MediumRare

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In the Netherlands we could use a big lake right in the middle of our country. Doesn't have to be high if it's wide enough. Could build a dike around it if necessary.

View attachment 256896

Or you could use the energy to lift concrete blocks on a crane and generate energy by letting gravity pull on the block and using a generator.
Iirc this is done in Switzerland.
Hydro: It's a nice thought, but you do need the height. Gravity/weights is another story, that might work well. I just read it's potentially not only lifting weights, but also submerging balloons. So the IJsselmeer might work for that.
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monkeyboy

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Pumped storage has been the go to in the past, but those opportunities have already been exploited...a similar method might be to pump water upstream of an existing dam, then run a turbine w/ the pumped volume, but I haven't seen any assessment of the feasibility/cost of such a scheme....
 

Mr. Widget

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Pumped storage has been the go to in the past, but those opportunities have already been exploited...a similar method might be to pump water upstream of an existing dam, then run a turbine w/ the pumped volume, but I haven't seen any assessment of the feasibility/cost of such a scheme....
In Northern California we have such a system. https://www.hydroreview.com/world-regions/gaining-value-by-increasing-efficiency/#gref

"The bedrock below Lake Oroville in northern California is the location for the 645-MW Edward Hyatt Powerplant, a pumped-storage hydroelectric facility owned and operated by the California Department of Water Resources (DWR). The powerhouse cavern is the size of two football fields. Construction began in 1964, and the plant went on line in 1969. With three turbines and three reversible pump-turbines, Hyatt produces enough electricity to supply about 600,000 homes each year.

Hyatt maximizes electricity production through a pumped-storage operation. During periods of peak power demand, water is released (in excess of local and downstream requirements) for generation. This water is pumped back into Lake Oroville during off-peak periods. However, DWR has drastically curtailed pumpback operation at Hyatt in recent years because of the high cost of the electricity and environmental issues. For example, because the lower reservoir of the plant is relatively shallow compared with the upper reservoir, water temperature in the lower reservoir rises quickly. As a result, any pumpback operation can change the ecology of the upper reservoir for fish habitation."
 

monkeyboy

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NPDES permit stuff always comes into play...we had to jump through hoops at Vermont Yankee to manage the heat rejection to the river...

I recall one vendor proposing rail cars full of pig iron being hauled up-hill as a means of storage, lots of nutty stuff over the years

The hydrogen zealots should be coming soon, telling us about the new H2 economy...I doubt any of the have looked at the phase diagram for H2 or have any idea of the difficulty in trying to move it around, or store it at any volume...
 
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