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Grey market cameras

JeffS7444

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How important is it to you to be able to take photos now, as opposed to some unknown future date when all of the camera-warranty questions have been laid to rest? Because I'm thinking that most faults appear pretty quickly.

And for what it's worth, damage due to moisture is never covered, even in products sold as "weather sealed" or even "submersible", though in some instances you may be offered a trade-in credit for equipment which they've judged to be un-repairable.
 
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JJB70

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How important is it to you to be able to take photos now, as opposed to some unknown future date when all of the camera-warranty questions have been laid to rest? Because I'm thinking that most faults appear pretty quickly.

And for what it's worth, damage due to moisture is never covered, even in products sold as "weather sealed" or even "submersible", though in some instances you may be offered a trade-in credit for equipment which they've judged to be un-repairable.

A good question, and probably a segue into another discussion as what we want from stuff is a question probably worthy of a lot more thought.

At one time I saw cameras as a long term purchase and they were built to last for the long term (at least the good ones). I know I have been a bit negative about Nikon in this thread but their 35mm equipment was legendary for the right reasons. When I worked for British Antarctic Survey their standard camera body was the FM2 as it was pretty much bombproof, fully mechanical apart from the light meter and would operate in Antarctica in a way few others would. Once there was a rumour that production had ended (it was slightly premature) and they went around camera shops buying up any FM2 bodies in stock. In those days even if the manufacturer service network was problematic there was any number of options to have cameras repaired and serviced if necessary. Now build quality doesn't appear to be what it once was, technology is evolving, lens mounts seem to keep changing, firmware reaches limits, cameras are a lot more complex etc I think the issue of what we want from a camera is interesting. Note that I am not in denial of the immense advances, modern cameras offer capabilities and functionality I couldn't have dreamed of when I got my first camera and I certainly don't want to go back to the old days of the FM2 (though it is nice to have such a camera as a Sunday afternoon indulgence).

I don't buy a lot of stuff, and I prefer to buy good quality and keep it. If stuff is intended to be throwaway I see little point going above cheap entry level. With a digital camera I want something robust enough and durable enough to give me a few years use, and hopefully for any lenses to be long term use. My concern isn't warranty, the standard warranty here seems to be 12 months + 3 additional months if registered on-line and that is fine as we'll be in Singapore for that period. My concern is paid for service and repair work after that, I'm under no illusions such support will be available forever but I want support for a period at least. And these days it is increasingly the case that any repairs have to go to the manufacturer service network as only they have access to what spares are available etc. So being able to get gear repaired overseas (I'd stress I am talking about chargeable work, I don't expect it to be free) is important for me. I may return to England, I may go to the US (my employer is based in DC) or a number of other places meaning there is a good chance I will need access to overseas service centres.

I don't want to claim to be the worlds greatest environmentalist as I'm no more eco-friendly than most and am certainly no angel, but I do think if we want to reduce impact we should end the throwaway short life cycle attitudes to the things we buy and buy things that will give us good service for a long time.
 
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JJB70

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After all that I have ended up with a Sony A7c, it's a bit more than I wanted to spend but it's a lovely camera and my limits as a photographer will kick in long before getting anywhere near the cameras boundaries. In the context of this thread I am pleased to advise that they issued a tourist warranty which is an international warranty and both Sony Singapore and Sony UK confirmed (in writing) that post warranty service and repairs will be done, no problem (chargeable of course). Little bit of a journey but very happy with the result.
 

JeffS7444

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After all that I have ended up with a Sony A7c
Excellent choice, if not so inexpensive! Olympus-derived IBIS, and the compact kit zoom lens is well-regarded. The main reason I don't currently own one myself is because when the upgrade bug bit, I wanted a whopping upgrade from my A7 Mk 1, and the A7R4 certainly provided that.

I've since added about a half-dozen items to "My Menu", and for pretty much all else, I just press "Fn" to access secondary features which I may be too lazy to remember mapping to one of the programmable buttons.

Too bad about Nikon but I think many authorized distributers are independent entities, and some of those arrangements may be decades-old. Hence, small wonder if answers to your queries varied. Nikon USA was previously such an independent company: Ehrenreich Photo Optical Inc.
 
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JJB70

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Indeed my circumstances are not so normal (though not so rare either) and for most the service and repair issue is unlikely to be a problem. This is something I hadn't really thought about myself as the last time I bought a camera or lens they came with International warranties and would be serviced anywhere, though even then some official service centres asked for an AD stamped warranty card or for the gear to have been registered. In my youth I was at sea, and I spent long periods of several months at a time in Asian shipyards as an owner's engineer for new building ships. Wonderful opportunity as at weekends I would travel around and take the camera. I still work in shipping (I returned after a detour into nuclear fuel and electricity generation) and under normal circumstances would still travel quite a lot (though my days of going onboard and doing real work ended in 2004.
My wife (bless her) suggested it was better to spend a bit more and get the camera I really wanted and although the 7c is more than the M5 iii I was initially looking at it wasn't that much more really. I bought it from the local Sony Centre and it was a pleasant surprise when they said they could do the international warranty as we were chatting about things while they got the stuff out from the store room and did the sales transaction stuff.
 
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JJB70

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All change!!

My Sony lens had a fault which was causing it to bind at certain points, interrupting focus. So I returned it and made a complete change, and approached things from exactly the opposite direction. This may seem quite an extreme change. One thing to say is Sony gave me the choice of a refund or replacement, no arguing or squirming.

Instead of going for a nice body to build on I instead have gone for good lenses with a decent body. A local department store had an obsolete NOS Fujifilm XE2 with XF 18 -55 kit which they were trying to sell for S$950, with 10% off and then they offered a further S$200 off. $S655 seemed quite attractive as although it is long obsolete the lens is excellent and goes for about the same price locally. With the money saved I bought a Fujinon XF 60 macro and an XF 70 - 300. The total cost was very slightly more than the A7c and 28 - 60 kit.

So I now have an obsolete but nice body with 3 superb lenses which cover 99% of my needs.

The tactile feel of the Fuji equipment is superb, the body feels almost like a nice mechanical camera with the sort of control dials not so common anymore. Yes it is old and the sensor lags on size and pixel count compared to current models but I have been very impressed with the colour rendition of the sensor and 16MP will give me perfectly good A4 prints which is as large as I go. The lenses are beautifully put together with a heft and feel closer to the Sony GM series than the sort of FF lenses in the same price bands. And they seem well regarded optically. Despite the age I am really enjoying the XE2, and if I do want another body I have a seamless upgrade path to something like an X-Pro3. I really wanted an X-Pro3 but they are expensive. Because the XE2 body was almost free I now have the lenses I need so in future would just need a new body. Actually, despite its age my initial impression of the XE2 is extremely positive, it's a lovely camera to hold and use.

And yes, Fuji confirmed I have access to their global service and repair network.

As I say, an extreme change of tack.
 

LTig

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Yes it is old and the sensor lags on size and pixel count compared to current models but I have been very impressed with the colour rendition of the sensor and 16MP will give me perfectly good A4 prints which is as large as I go.
16 MP is good enough for prints larger than A4. I made prints up to 80x60 cm from my D200 with 10 MP APS-C sensor. They appeared sharp when viewed from 20 cm distance.
 
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JJB70

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Indeed, certainly enough for me. Digital cameras achieved technological maturity long ago and the days when each new sensor generation really moved things on ended over a decade ago I think. It's much harder to find a digital camera that doesn't just work than one which does so I think things like price, build quality and how they feel in the hand are more significant to the decision making process than worrying about the sensor. In all honesty I haven't noticed any difference in image quality between Sony FF and two generations old Fujifilm 16MP APS at similar focal length and aperture. That however is very much a two way street as just as it indicates that there's no need to obsess over sensors it also indicates that the ostensibly lower tier Sony kit lens is perfectly good for real world use.
 
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