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Grey market cameras

JJB70

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I know this can be quite an emotive topic and elicits strong opinions, but it's quite an elephant in the room of several interests of mine (cameras and watches especially). It was brought to mind last night as I had a look at the Nikon Z50, Z5 and Z6 in a Nikon authorised dealer. The dealer was very helpful and didn't try and pressure me into buying or anything, so I do not want to criticise them. However, one of the things they said was I should only buy Nikon from an authorized dealer in Singapore because not only would Nikon Singapore refuse to support warranty claims on a grey market model, they also refuse to offer any support at all, even chargeable work. I then asked a question - I spend a lot of time in Indonesia, and at some point may move back to England, what happens if I need warranty support or a repair overseas if I buy from an AD in Singapore? This is where it got interesting, as the guy seemed pretty straight in saying "it depends", he said that if I have a stamped warranty card from an AD in any country the local Nikon distributor should offer support and certainly do chargeable work, but that some of them can be very awkward about even that case and that he has had a lot of customer complaints from people who have either bought Nikon gear while travelling or who have moved to Singapore from overseas and met very frosty responses from Nikon Singapore if contacting them. Now I fully understand Nikon distributors not providing warranty support to gear sold by non-ADs (though it begs the question of how gear ends up with grey market sellers), and if they want to extend that to not offering any support then that's their decision, but it strikes me that the Nikon policy in the case of someone in my position is actually a reason to buy grey market and save money if they are also going to be precious about gear sold by overseas ADs, am I missing something here? If I buy a Nikon camera from an AD here and am then treated as a grey market outcast by any other Nikon distributors what is the point of buying from an AD if there is a good probability I may need support overseas?
 

TheWalkman

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I’ve owned at least half a dozen SLRs over the years - started with a Minolta in high school, graduated to two Nikon’s (8008 and F3) a couple of Olympus XA compacts and at least half a dozen digital cameras (primarily Canon and Lumixs) and have never needed to make a warranty claim on any of them.

I must therefore ask, does it really matter?
 
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JJB70

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Warranty support is like any sort of insurance really, if you never claim then it's irrelevant, if you ever need it then it's hugely important. The only warranty support I have ever had to make was a Zeiss zoom lens for my old Contax system (that experience made me question the golden reputation of Zeiss and Contax) and a Lumix compact for which the screen died (the dealer was excellent in sorting it out with Panasonic UK, who seemed to give the dealer very good service). In general I find things aren't made like they once were and some sort of assurance that support is there if ever needed is comforting.
 

flyzipper

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Speak to Nikon about your situation -- an authorized dealer will use whatever tactic they can to have you buy from them, so I wouldn't trust their info. The specific details you're looking for may also be contained in the warranty document itself, so also check there.
 

0bs3rv3r

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A completely different take is that, if you are saving a fair bit of money on the grey market item(s), you might consider the savings as self-insurance/warranty, and just wear it if you are unlucky and something fails.

I think I have only bought one grey market lens, and I just aassumed the risk that it did not carry a warranty.
 
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JJB70

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Speak to Nikon about your situation -- an authorized dealer will use whatever tactic they can to have you buy from them, so I wouldn't trust their info. The specific details you're looking for may also be contained in the warranty document itself, so also check there.

Just done, thx, the following is from their website:

When considering on purchasing a product while touring overseas, please be informed that should the product require any servicing or repair, you will have to send it back to the country of purchase, at your own cost, for the service to be carried out under warranty coverage, if applicable.

International warranty is only valid for Nikkor lenses and film cameras.


That is for warranty, and quite clear (though worth noting). However what is perhaps more relevant is whether they will do local non-warranty repairs and servicing on equipment bought overseas.

We recently threw some AKG noise cancelling IEMs away as AKG said their warranty is not international and so I had to deal with AKG in the UK. It was annoying as we bought the things this year and they were still under warranty but when looking at the cost and hassle of sending them to the UK and dealing with it remotely, and then looked at the cost of the things I decided it wasn't worth it.
 
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JJB70

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A completely different take is that, if you are saving a fair bit of money on the grey market item(s), you might consider the savings as self-insurance/warranty, and just wear it if you are unlucky and something fails.

I think I have only bought one grey market lens, and I just aassumed the risk that it did not carry a warranty.

It's a fair point.
 

Blumlein 88

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Just done, thx, the following is from their website:

When considering on purchasing a product while touring overseas, please be informed that should the product require any servicing or repair, you will have to send it back to the country of purchase, at your own cost, for the service to be carried out under warranty coverage, if applicable.

International warranty is only valid for Nikkor lenses and film cameras.


That is for warranty, and quite clear (though worth noting). However what is perhaps more relevant is whether they will do local non-warranty repairs and servicing on equipment bought overseas.

We recently threw some AKG noise cancelling IEMs away as AKG said their warranty is not international and so I had to deal with AKG in the UK. It was annoying as we bought the things this year and they were still under warranty but when looking at the cost and hassle of sending them to the UK and dealing with it remotely, and then looked at the cost of the things I decided it wasn't worth it.
I'd consider that treatment pretty poor on Nikon's part. Especially in a modern world and with bit of kit like a modern high tech camera which is the sort of thing one might travel with. They can't manage to issue some sort of hard to fake official purchase certificate or an online registration that would let you use their services anywhere in the world? They are pinching too many pennies. Of course I also have it against them that they dropped rifle scopes because I have a few of their scopes.

I purchased a Nikon DSLR camera when they first came out that was gray market. I used it and used it and sold it to a coworker who used it and used it. Never had a problem so the warranty was a non-issue. My thoughts at the time mirror those up thread. The savings up front were a risk on whether you needed warranty or not. If I had problems, then I would have ate the cost of it. Simply part of the deal.
 
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JJB70

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I'd consider that treatment pretty poor on Nikon's part. Especially in a modern world and with bit of kit like a modern high tech camera which is the sort of thing one might travel with. They can't manage to issue some sort of hard to fake official purchase certificate or an online registration that would let you use their services anywhere in the world? They are pinching too many pennies. Of course I also have it against them that they dropped rifle scopes because I have a few of their scopes.

I purchased a Nikon DSLR camera when they first came out that was gray market. I used it and used it and sold it to a coworker who used it and used it. Never had a problem so the warranty was a non-issue. My thoughts at the time mirror those up thread. The savings up front were a risk on whether you needed warranty or not. If I had problems, then I would have ate the cost of it. Simply part of the deal.

In an ever more connected world I also think international warranty and product support should be the norm. If it isn't then that's a choice a manufacturer can make, but if so then I would consider it a relevant consideration when making a purchase decision. The thing that strikes me as rather odd in this case is that if what the dealer said is true then in a case like mine it is much more sensible to just buy grey market. If I had bought grey market IEMs I might have saved money and wouldn't have lost anything in being told to talk to a distributor 6000 odd miles away when they broke.
 
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JJB70

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I received a reply from Nikon Singapore support already, that's a 10/10 for prompt response, getting an answer at 09.08 on a Monday morning to a question submitted on Sunday afternoon.
Unfortunately the answer is as clear as mud. They confirm that even with an AD stamped warranty card and registered product any warranty claims must be done with Nikon in the country where the camera was purchased, with shipping at customer expense. That's the same as their website so all clear.
The real question I wanted answered was whether overseas Nikon distributors will do non-warranty service and repair work (for a fee, obviously) on Nikon equipment with a warranty card stamped by an overseas AD and registered. Their answer is I need to talk to each distributor as policies differ and each distributor will make a decision.
I find this ridiculous, Nikon can't tell customers unequivocally that equipment bought from an overseas AD will be supported with customers paying for that service. The intention is to try and kill the grey market, but for someone in my admittedly non-typical position it does the exact opposite. What reason is there to pay significantly more to go to an AD when I may end up in the same position as if I had just saved the money and gone grey?
I checked with Panasonic and they have international support. Olympus gave a similar answer to Nikon.
 
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JJB70

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Well I'd just write off Nikon unless they provide something so fantastic no one else's products compares, and that is not the case.

Unfortunately it seems like Nikon are closer to the norm than an exception. Olympus have provided a similar response and Fuji pretty much so. Still waiting for Canon. Panasonic seems to be the exception, although their warranty has some limits they have at least confirmed their international network will do service and repair work on cameras sold by any Panasonic AD. At one time international warranty and product support was normal in the camera world.
For most of their customers it is probably irrelevant but for anyone who travels a lot with their camera gear and may have to move around the world then I honestly see no real advantage in buying from an AD given many grey dealers offer a similar warranty to those offered by the manufacturer in the country of sale.
 

PierreV

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Unfortunately it seems like Nikon are closer to the norm than an exception. Olympus have provided a similar response and Fuji pretty much so. Still waiting for Canon.

It is roughly the same for Canon. With extended territories in some cases (Europe and Middle East for example).
There is the CPS (Canon Professional Service) but it has changed a lot since I last was a member (not that I ever was a pro or semi-pro photographer, I just bought quite a lot of stuff for my company).

CPS is now more open than it was before but offers fewer services than it did in the past.


As far as "dealer servicing" goes, it was basically non-existent anyway: I've had a couple of issues over the years and, in each case, the role of the dealer was simply to check it wasn't user error and send the camera/lens to a Canon service center and tell you when it came back for pickup.
 

Blumlein 88

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As far as "dealer servicing" goes, it was basically non-existent anyway: I've had a couple of issues over the years and, in each case, the role of the dealer was simply to check it wasn't user error and send the camera/lens to a Canon service center and tell you when it came back for pickup.
Yes, and more than ever we know the camera isn't being serviced by your local dealer. They may have regional service centers. Still, with confirmed registration of ownership why shouldn't you have a dealer send it off and tell you when it is back no matter where you are in the world.
 
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JJB70

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It's the ambiguity over whether or not they'll even do services and repairs on stuff bought through their AD network if the customer pays that I find disappointing. Cameras are a declining interest and camera manufacturers have a hard sell to persuade people other than professional photographers and enthusiastic amateurs that there is any reason to have a camera when smartphone cameras are so capable. You'd think offering good service would be part of their strategy to keep their customers onboard, I'd emphasise it's not the idea of requiring warranty work having to be done in the country of sale I'm annoyed at (though neither am I over joyed at that), it's this idea that if I return to England and ask Nikon UK about a repair I'll be treated like some sort of grey market outcast even if I have a stamped Singapore AD card and bought the thing in Singapore because we're living and working here.
If we were still in a world of Nikon FM2's I wouldn't be so bothered as unless you were either very unlucky or did something stupid those things would just go on and on and we virtually bomb proof. And in those days a lot of good camera shops had a repair technician who could do repairs when necessary. Now cameras are computers, with two viewing screens, firmware, multiple interfaces etc and even the lenses have embedded electronic systems. I suspect that these things will in many cases be throwaway within a reasonably short period but even when spares are still available I'm guessing they'll be with the manufacturer service network and very few independent repair specialists are going to be able to keep up. Especially when a lot of the hardware now seems to be pretty short lifecycle with constantly evolving firmware etc.
I guess manufacturers are looking at these things being like smartphones and laptops where they have a life expectancy and we're expected to keep refreshing the things.
 

LTig

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I’ve owned at least half a dozen SLRs over the years - started with a Minolta in high school, graduated to two Nikon’s (8008 and F3) a couple of Olympus XA compacts and at least half a dozen digital cameras (primarily Canon and Lumixs) and have never needed to make a warranty claim on any of them.

I must therefore ask, does it really matter?
Yes, it does. My D200 needed a sensor exchange due to too many hot pixels, my D800 suffered from the left side autofocus problem (occurred in the very 1st charge) and required a recalibration.
 

maverickronin

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At one time international warranty and product support was normal in the camera world.
For most of their customers it is probably irrelevant but for anyone who travels a lot with their camera gear and may have to move around the world then I honestly see no real advantage in buying from an AD given many grey dealers offer a similar warranty to those offered by the manufacturer in the country of sale.

I'm not a photography/camera person I find it very strange that they refuse to offer international warranty service since cameras are much more likely to travel than most other categories of consumer electronics.
 

LTig

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I'm not a photography/camera person I find it very strange that they refuse to offer international warranty service since cameras are much more likely to travel than most other categories of consumer electronics.
Absolutely! AFAIK lenses get a 1 year warranty world wide regardless where they had been bought, but not bodies. This really is stupid since IMV chances are higher that a body fails than a lense.

Pro photographers may be covered by the NPS but if I travel overseas and my body breaks or gets stolen and I buy a new one locally at a shop I expect that Nikon stands behind its product when it fails after I'm back home.
 

anmpr1

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I'm not a photography/camera person I find it very strange that they refuse to offer international warranty service since cameras are much more likely to travel than most other categories of consumer electronics.
I guess the idea is that if you are a tourist, you'll simply pack it up and take it home with you for repair, since you won't likely be in country long enough to get it back from the warranty station, anyway. And if you are a pro, you probably have a back up in your gear bag.

But my real guess is that the warranty situation is simply the means to protect the established importer's territory. There used to be a thriving grey market with high-end audio gear from Japan. Bypass the dealer, and importer. But now, with the exception of perhaps phono cartridges, where they can't, manufacturers make sure locally sourced gear is specific to local electricity. It used to be that manufacturers built with multi voltage capability, and put a selector switch on the back. I don't think it's been that way for decades.
 

LTig

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[..]
But now, with the exception of perhaps phono cartridges, where they can't, manufacturers make sure locally sourced gear is specific to local electricity. It used to be that manufacturers built with multi voltage capability, and put a selector switch on the back. I don't think it's been that way for decades.
Those times are gone as well. Modern switching power supplies accept all voltages between 100 and 240V so can be used as is world wide.
 
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