Greetings, How much credibility and weight and consideration do you give to your spouse/friend about how your speakers sound?

[DVDdoug]

I wouldn't really trust other "random people". It would depend on their interest in audio. Most people don't give it much thought, and even most "audiophiles" can't explain what they are hearing. One of my pet-peeves is that "audiophiles" tend to use a lot of meaningless terminology. ...That, and they "hear things" that they can't really hear in blind listening tests.

If somebody says something SPECIFIC like "the bass is strong", or "the dialog is muffled" or hard to understand (a common problem in movies) , I'd trust that.

3. I then asked her to point to where she is hearing the music. She pointed pretty much in the centre with the lyrics and pointed out instruments in the invisible soundstage.

That's a good experiment, but quoting Floyd Toole (again):

The important localization and soundstage information is the responsibility of the recording engineer, not the loudspeaker.

The speakers and room also have some effect, especially if you have omnidirectional, or bipole/dipole speakers. Plus, it's an illusion with the sound actually coming from two speakers, so your brain is involved.

Personally, I enjoy "stereo sound" but I mostly listen to rock which is multi-track recorded so the soundstage is totally artificial and I don't give it a lot of thought.

5. My wife does play the piano - not much, just at an intermediate level, but loves music and I think she has an ear.

This probably doesn't apply to your wife but many musicians appreciate the underlying music more that the quality of the sound. And listening to music on a stereo in your living room is nothing like to what the musician hears when playing on stage (or what the listener hears in a music hall). A stereo can sound like a real piano but a real piano doesn't sound that great in a "small" living room.

like Rock and Roll by Zeppelin or some songs form Journey, when the music picks up it sounds muddy and I can't tell instrument separation and make out the male vocals - I would love if someone explained why my speakers fail at those songs,

my first thought is what Chrispy said:

Could be quality of recordings for those 10 you don't like on your speakers.

Some recordings are simply better than others. And don't be afraid to EQ certain recordings differently! Its one of the few things we can adjust after-the-fact.

And, bass problems resulting from standing waves exist in MOST home listening environments and the bass in certain recordings may trigger those resonances.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Songs from albums like this?

If so, it's not really your system. It's a great album, but isn't one to judge your speakers by. This is just one among many, all genre are guilty of bad sounding recordings. People go and buy every copy of every supposed improved mastering, pressing, and re-release of various bad sounding albums, often in vain (don't ask me how I know this). There is even a documentary claiming (arguably) bad sound kept Anvil from the mega-success they deserved:

Anvil: The Story of Anvil (2008) ⭐ 7.9 | Documentary, Biography, Drama

1h 20m | Not Rated

www.imdb.com

It's easy on ASR (or anywhere else for that matter) to get a case of FUD on the gear you have, given there are such a range of speaker reviews, measurements, and discussions. One thing that can help your uncertainty is to get a simple measurement mic, and use some of the software discussed here (like REW). You can learn how to evaluate your speakers in your room, see if you have some reflections, resonances, peaks or valleys that might exacerbate issues. Explore quantitatively the on and off-axis behavior of your speakers. Perhaps use moving mic method to get an approximation at the main listening position (I learned that here from a knowledgeable member's posts). You will invariably find some things that you can improve, even if your speakers and/or room are not ideal (nobody's are). PEQ is one path that helps. Even small changes in placement can help, and with a mic it isn't voodoo, you can actually measure changes in bass, off-axis behavior, etc.

Hope this helps.

I forgot to ad, you are correct! that is exactly what I was noticing with Journey. On one cd only 3 tracks sound great the rest sound like cow dung!

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

She might have better hearing than you. The science is not settled, but there are many studies showing men have more intense and accelerated age-related hearing loss. An interesting topic: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jnr.24647

Thank you for the link! supper interesting, I am going to share it with her.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

My wife has pretty significant hearing loss. She was born partially deaf in both ears and now that she's entering her fifties, it's getting worse. She wears hearing aids all of the time.

We have had a pair of Martin Logan SL3s for fifteen years. We have had a few different amps running them over the years (Arcam, Anthem, Rotel). They have always sounded amazing for music. But we have had issues with garbled dialogue for home theater. Especially for her with her hearing impairments. But now that I have found this amazing place, and I have figured out the issue with measurements. The speakers are too close to the wall. It creates a huge room resonance at 50 hertz that makes everything muddy when there are explosions and car chases going on. Moving the speakers out further from the wall works well in my experimentation but isn't an option. We just don't have the space.

So I got a Wiim Pro and built some PEQ settings. And now we can crank everything up really loud and enjoy a real cinematic experience, but also be able to understand what the actors are saying.

View attachment 380695

For music, the differences are not so light and day. There is such tremendous variety of different types of music and how they were recorded and what kind of medium it's on and what the condition of the medium is and etc. That I usually end up fiddling with the tone controls on my Rotel if I'm doing any serious listening and adjusting the PEQ settings after every track. Lol.

Ok that is helpful. Thank you. I will look at the Wiim Pro. I had no idea you can make adjustment like that. Thanks again for sharing that. I appreciate it.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Since my wife is a musician with long experience in various types of groups, including orchestras, big bands, rock bands, jazz bands, and theater, if she says something sounds real, I perk right up and listen carefully. Even more so when she doesn't like how a system sounds.

The last part "even more so when she doesn't like how a system sounds" is golden. I will keep that in mind. Thank you!

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

I trust what a civilian says more than any enthusiast. Enthusiasts can get to where they can't see the wood for the trees. You get a fellow nutter come around, he's into single driver folded horns and SETs. He sees big multiway speakers and solid state amps, he's made his mind up already before the first bar of music.

Civilians have no stake either way but if it sounds good to them, they'll usually say so. That's how you know you're on a winner.

haha, Love that! Thanks! Makes total sense! So true.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

I wouldn't really trust other "random people". It would depend on their interest in audio. Most people don't give it much thought, and even most "audiophiles" can't explain what they are hearing. One of my pet-peeves is that "audiophiles" tend to use a lot of meaningless terminology. ...That, and they "hear things" that they can't really hear in blind listening tests.

If somebody says something SPECIFIC like "the bass is strong", or "the dialog is muffled" or hard to understand (a common problem in movies) , I'd trust that.


That's a good experiment, but quoting Floyd Toole (again):

The speakers and room also have some effect, especially if you have omnidirectional, or bipole/dipole speakers. Plus, it's an illusion with the sound actually coming from two speakers, so your brain is involved.

Personally, I enjoy "stereo sound" but I mostly listen to rock which is multi-track recorded so the soundstage is totally artificial and I don't give it a lot of thought.


This probably doesn't apply to your wife but many musicians appreciate the underlying music more that the quality of the sound. And listening to music on a stereo in your living room is nothing like to what the musician hears when playing on stage (or what the listener hears in a music hall). A stereo can sound like a real piano but a real piano doesn't sound that great in a "small" living room.


my first thought is what Chrispy said:

Some recordings are simply better than others. And don't be afraid to EQ certain recordings differently! Its one of the few things we can adjust after-the-fact.

And, bass problems resulting from standing waves exist in MOST home listening environments and the bass in certain recordings may trigger those resonances.

Again excellent info. wow to all of you! this is so helpful and enjoyable to read all these responses. I love the fact that you all know so much more than I - still learning, but I love all these points that are very valid and make sense to me. So many logical things I just did not know to think about. Thank You!

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Good common sense approach. In this case both @RayDunzl's idea of a source issue and my idea of needing frequency compensation in the form of parametric equalization are good common sense too.

Yes I keep reading this. Time to look into parametric equalization! Thanks!

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Just wanted to say a tremendous Thank You to all of you who replied. I appreciate all that helpful information, I enjoyed hearing all these tips and info I had not heard or considered. What a tremendous help to get me thinking more about everything in the set up and process. For now ... enjoy your weekend everyone. Many thanks!

 

[AwesomeSauce2015]

Yep. If you aren't using room correction or any kind of EQ, it can make a huge difference.
The big thing, when dealing with "slow" bass (assuming it isn't the album, which what you reported may be), is dealing with room modes.
When you have bass resonances (room modes), it can make you think that a system sounds "slow". Look at reviews of REL subwoofers for an example: They are always touted as "fast" subwoofers. This is mainly because they have less bass extension than comparable products, and as such don't excite room modes as much as those other subwoofers.

The easiest way to deal with these bass resonances is to apply EQ, and to adjust your speaker and listening position. (This is one reason separate subwoofers are popular, the optimal locations for stereo imaging and for bass are usually different). Software tools like Audyssey and Dirac Live can also help.

Of course, there are people who say that EQ can degrade the sound, and if implemented poorly (either with bad EQ settings or bad-performing hardware), running EQ can definitely sound worse than without it. However, assuming you use quality hardware, and tune it properly, EQ can really benefit the sound.

 

[Chrispy]

They are 2007 JBL 4 way towers. Thanks for asking.

Which model?

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Which model?

Hello Chrispy, I attached the model spec in pdf. JBL ES Series.

 

[Reminiscent Audio Guy]

Yep. If you aren't using room correction or any kind of EQ, it can make a huge difference.
The big thing, when dealing with "slow" bass (assuming it isn't the album, which what you reported may be), is dealing with room modes.
When you have bass resonances (room modes), it can make you think that a system sounds "slow". Look at reviews of REL subwoofers for an example: They are always touted as "fast" subwoofers. This is mainly because they have less bass extension than comparable products, and as such don't excite room modes as much as those other subwoofers.

The easiest way to deal with these bass resonances is to apply EQ, and to adjust your speaker and listening position. (This is one reason separate subwoofers are popular, the optimal locations for stereo imaging and for bass are usually different). Software tools like Audyssey and Dirac Live can also help.

Of course, there are people who say that EQ can degrade the sound, and if implemented poorly (either with bad EQ settings or bad-performing hardware), running EQ can definitely sound worse than without it. However, assuming you use quality hardware, and tune it properly, EQ can really benefit the sound.

Thank you! I am already messing around again with set up.