Great measuring headphones...

[solderdude]

I’ve been using Sennheiser HD-25s for a while (10 years). The main reason for not upgrading those earlier is basically that I didn't know what to look for. As silly as it sounds, especially since I work in the audio industry.
I am looking for a neutral set of headphones with more detail than the HD-25s. The DT-1990s were what came closest as far as what I could read and find online.

All on the same testrig and ears

HD25-1
K701
K7XX (close to K712)
Sundara
HE400i
X2HR

since you don't mind on-ears:
1MTDOE

In the Sennheiser line consider as reference phones:
HD650
HD660S

 

[martinweiss]

I'd have to say that it looks like I missed the Sennheiser HD-650 in my initial shortlist. The frequency response looks promising, but perhaps a bit too dark? The HD600s look nice, except for the LF rolloff.

What about Audeze? LCD-2 for instance.

Also, I have been thinking about the Sony MDR-M1STs since I first discovered them. I know they are closed, but I'm still curious.

 

[maverickronin]

I'd have to say that it looks like I missed the Sennheiser HD-650 in my initial shortlist. The frequency response looks promising, but perhaps a bit too dark? The HD600s look nice, except for the LF rolloff.

What about Audeze? LCD-2 for instance.

The HD650 and the LCD-2 (I like the "Classic" better than the "Fazor") are quite excellent, but may be darker than you'll like.

 

[martinweiss]

Thanks. I got a lot of information in a very short time here. I'm very grateful for that.

I will probably give the DT-1990s a week as solderdude suggested. So far I find them "bright" with the balanced pads installed, but my first impression was not that it they were WAY too bright. Let's see what happens.

It seems like the perfect headphones don't exist yet

 

[solderdude]

Near perfect headphones do exist but are costly.

Some (Stax) electrostats, the expensive Focals , Sonoma model 1, HE1 and perhaps the Raal SR1 come really close but requires some serious investments. When you want it a bit darker the Empyrean or some ZMF ?
Maybe Dan Clark Audio ?, Audeze LCD4, Final D8000 ? HE-6 ? Susvara ?

For me personally a 2nd hand HD800 with EQ comes very close to the expensive ones for a 'fraction' of the price (can get them for around $ 600 but you may need to buy pads, a cable (the stock is horrible) and headpadding setting you back another few hundred.

 

[martinweiss]

First of all, thanks a lot for the comments in this thread. Also, the list of high-end headphones in your (solderdude's) last post is great, I'm going to save it, even though I'm not currently looking to spend that amount of money on headphones.

I think I'm going to keep the DT-1990s. I might try out a filter of yours (perhaps with the Dekoni elite velour pads), but I am actually not that bothered by the high-frequency peak. Some tracks have too much content in that frequency region I now hear. But mostly I just enjoy the great detail compared to the HD-25s (not least in the bass region).

Even without the filter it still looks like the features of DT-1990s justify the price IMO.

 

[Noob]

Ok, time to report my results with Dt1990. Using both the analytical and balanced pads as well as the Dekoni Elite velour pads, I can confidently say I prefer the analytical pads because of the clarity throughout the entire frequency band. It's some of the best mid-frequency band I have ever heard. The treble is also really great. The only area that seems to lack in comparison is the bass, and that is only because I am comparing to some planar headphones I have that have almost perfectly flat and tight bass down to 15Hz. But the bass is still better than any other dynamic headphone I have heard.

I do use a piece of felt cut into a circle and stuffed into each of the cups when I use these to reduce the extra energy in the treble region. Without the felt pieces, I get ear fatigue within about 15-25 minutes. With them, I can listen to music or podcasts or whatever for as long as I want without fatigue. The change is extremely minimal and seems to only affect the portion of the treble region that bothers me. But even without the felt, these are NOT sibilant. Sibilance in a headphone by my definition is where the sibilant region 5~8k has audible distortion or ringing, causing sounds in that region to be harsher than they actually are in the recording. What I DO hear is an elevated frequency spike in that area, but not distortion. It's very clear. . .just too loud. My planars with the "perfect bass" on the other hand ARE sibilant, even though they are noticably less elevated in that same frequency band. So "S" sounds are harsher on the planars, but louder on the 1990s.

Moving on. The Elite Velour pads have AMAZING BASS! Everything just feels so warm and inviting when listening through the Elite Velour Pads. The problem is music that is mixed and mastered VERY well always sounds better through the Analytical pads. But music that was maybe not quite as well recorded/produced tends to sound better through the Elite Velours. Regardless, vocals ALWAYS sound better through the analytical pads even without the felt.

As for the balanced pads, they are trash. I find them unlistenable. The sound is too far distorted from the original content. If I wanted to listen to music that sounds completely different, I would find different music. I think It ruins the sound. The Elite Velours give as much of a bass boost as I think is appropriate on this headphone.

 

[martinweiss]

Could you give more info on this piece of felt you mention? What type, size and where to put it?

 

[Noob]

Could you give more info on this piece of felt you mention? What type, size and where to put it?

Wool felt about ~3mm thick and simply placed into the ear cups. I used scissors to cut two circles and simply fit them into the cups right between the driver and the ear. Works great. Other people use different materials for a similar effect. A youtube reviewer, Joshua Valour uses the foam discs from a pair of AKG headphones, k240 I think, in the exact same way and claims they provide the same type of effect.

 

[Noob]

No glue or adhesives required. They stay in place on their own, and I sized them to go slightly under the earpad, so that helps hold them in place. Earpad is put on first.

 

[martinweiss]

Cool. I’ll have to try that at some point. Thanks for posting it.

It would be great to see measurements of the impact as well.

 

[solderdude]

Here is some of my 'research' on taming treble in various ways.

The downside of using felt is that not only problem areas are lowered but also frequencies above the 'pain-point' are lowered which is not always desirable.

Below the effect of 3mm thick woolfelt on my DT990 (measured years ago)

 

[Noob]

Here is some of my 'research' on taming treble in various ways.

The downside of using felt is that not only problem areas are lowered but also frequencies above the 'pain-point' are lowered which is not always desirable.

Below the effect of 3mm thick woolfelt on my DT990 (measured years ago)

I considered this. Fortunately with the dt1990 frequency response, the entire treble region benefits from coming down a bit. I wouldn’t recommend this with all headphones, but the dt1990, and apparently the 990 as well judging from that graph, do benefit from some wool felt inserted in front of the driver in my opinion.