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Grado SR60x Review (on ear headphone)

Rate this headphone:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 129 57.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 61 27.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 24 10.8%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 4.0%

  • Total voters
    223

don'ttrustauthority

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You don't see how what I said isn't what they tested except in the one instance you excluded, or are you just having fun with me?

Mods, I don' wanna get banned, just delete this one.
 

EJ3

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dominated by 50 year olds who thought Huey Lewis was "too black sounding"
Maybe that is true in the area you are in.
As a Caucasian who spent the majority of 2001-2018 being a part of less than 1% of the population ethnicity at the places I was at: I have to say that I have travelled a LOT while spending weeks & months at a time in various and recurring places in Europe, Asia & Oceana both North & South of the equator and have never once heard that said (or inferred). Maybe mostly because they saw his video's. But he (& the News) were popular among rock/blues fans in all the places I have traveled at various times (including before there were video's of his act). Clubs & homes. Don't know about headphone users.
With one exception (too New Wave?) What I have heard about Huey Lewis follows along with this: People magazine contributor Roger Wolmuth wrote about Huey Lewis and the News, “No matter that the band’s message has all the depth of Huey’s chin dimple, or that its bouncy good-time sound seems straight out of rock ’n’ roll’s archives. Echoes of street corner doo-wop singing and urban gospel, of ’50s rockabilly and ’80s rock blend together like primary colors.” The critic added that Lewis and his companions hardly fit the hard rocker mold with their short haircuts and shirt-and-jeans attire. “With Lewis,” concluded Wolmuth, “there are only the chiseled good-guy looks and slap-on-the-back chumminess that make him seem as comfy as a cardigan to his fans. Think of him as an aging high school jock, a favorite drinking buddy or that lovable lug of an older brother.”
 

Sal1950

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Harman isn't perfect, but it's better than 10+ years ago when the headphone meta was dominated by 50 year olds who thought Huey Lewis was "too black sounding"
That's just silly and I think (know) you made that up.
 

GaryH

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You don't see how what I said isn't what they tested except in the one instance you excluded, or are you just having fun with me?

Mods, I don' wanna get banned, just delete this one.
They found the same preferences across countries (broadly correlated with ethnicity) and age. But I think you really need to read this to understand the difference between music production and reproduction preference. Sean Olive puts it well here:

When a Monet art exhibit travels to different countries, the art is not altered, transformed or "improved" to suit the local tastes of the country. Art lovers want to see the original Monet, not a new and improved version with edge enhancements, higher contrast and 3D effects. The same is true of the sound of Vienna Philharmonic when they do a world tour. When they tour Japan, they don’t leave half the bass section at home because the Japanese do not supposedly like bass. So why would we want to tamper with the original sound of the Vienna Philharmonic when playing recordings of them through our audio system?
 

Raindog123

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For the sake of the discussion, as a forementioned Japanese person, am I allowed to prefer, let's say performance of Prague Philharmonic (known for their muted bass) over Vienna Philharmonic? Or to listen the Vienna orchestra through Grado's? :)
 
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Robin L

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For the sake of the discussion, as a forementioned Japanese person, I am allowed to prefer, let's say performance of Prague Philharmonic (known for their muted bass) over Vienna Philharmonic? Or to listen the Vienna orchestra through Grado's? :)
New York Philharmonic over JBL PA speakers in a concrete basement. "The closest approach to the original sound" in the pre-renovation Philharmonic Hall.
 

Sal1950

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don'ttrustauthority

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They found the same preferences across countries (broadly correlated with ethnicity) and age. But I think you really need to read this to understand the difference between music production and reproduction preference. Sean Olive puts it well here:
The premise of the Harman curve is to change the sound. I accept the argument that changing the sound AT ALL is wrong. But if you are saying there is only one right way to change it, I think you are wrong.

It was my impression when auditioning the grado lineup a couple years back.
I tried the profession 500 once, and that was my impression but I didn't try any others. Did you try the big 1000 size? I was hoping those would be more neutral.
 

GaryH

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The premise of the Harman curve is to change the sound.
In fact it's the opposite. The whole goal of using a common standard target is so that the sound is not changed between what the mastering engineer hears in the studio at the production end, and what the consumer hears at the reproduction end, in order to preserve the artist's intent. Then if you don't like what you're hearing, that's just down to your taste in music (production), not your taste in reproduction transducers.
 
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EJ3

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The premise of the Harman curve is to change the sound.
How 'bout to standardize the sound to the highest average preference score of the known preference testing? Then adjust to your liking from a known point.
Like a food recipe: You take one that you like but feel that there are some changes you could make to make it better for yourself (& perhaps others, if they are eating with you). Maybe you use a different type of stove or oven & the timing or amount of heat is different. You don't completely change the recipe (because you already know it) but you perhaps add more of something (could be heat/ time, spicing or all of these), less of something else & maybe even a different spice or leave one out altogether. The basic recipe stays the same, no matter who makes it. But each individual may (or may not) adjust it to their preference. If the adjustment to preference didn't gel for you then it's easy to do it again from the known starting point and make the adjustment different. Once it is adjusted as you want it (or need it). But the same beginning is always there.
 

don'ttrustauthority

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In fact it's the opposite. The whole goal of using a common standard target is so that the sound is not changed between what the mastering engineer hears in the studio at the production end, and what the consumer hears at the reproduction end, in order to preserve the artist's intent. Then if you don't like what you're hearing, that's just down to your taste in music (production), not your taste in reproduction transducers.
We already have a common standard target, it's called flat response. That is how the sound is not changed.

You don't understand that changing the sound changes the sound, I can't help you. Unless you want to remaster the entire existing library to Harman prepared?
 

don'ttrustauthority

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How 'bout to standardize the sound to the highest average preference score of the known preference testing? Then adjust to your liking from a known point.
Like a food recipe: You take one that you like but feel that there are some changes you could make to make it better for yourself (& perhaps others, if they are eating with you). Maybe you use a different type of stove or oven & the timing or amount of heat is different. You don't completely change the recipe (because you already know it) but you perhaps add more of something (could be heat/ time, spicing or all of these), less of something else & maybe even a different spice or leave one out altogether. The basic recipe stays the same, no matter who makes it. But each individual may (or may not) adjust it to their preference. If the adjustment to preference didn't gel for you then it's easy to do it again from the known starting point and make the adjustment different. Once it is adjusted as you want it (or need it). But the same beginning is always there.
Sure, that's another way to put it. I don't object to it. I object to the idea that it is universal among populations or the type of music you are playing.

I think it's easy to see that a bass inferior headphone that distorts at high dbs, but with superior midrange and less distortion at low levels might be a better headphone for acoustic guitar music than it's rating would tend to indicate, because it's weaknesses are not being exploited. Is this so difficult to understand?

Which people seem to be intentionally confusing with the music the listener prefers.

I look at their samples and they don't have these comparisons being made.
 

don'ttrustauthority

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For the sake of the discussion, as a forementioned Japanese person, am I allowed to prefer, let's say performance of Prague Philharmonic (known for their muted bass) over Vienna Philharmonic? Or to listen the Vienna orchestra through Grado's?

Could it be that local regulations in Sweden vs Italy mean that Italians hear music live that is brighter, so they might have a different expectation in the music they hear? Or their traditional music might have a certain tonal tilt. And therefore that could lead you to prefer one or the other of you examples.

Are you allowed to overcome these influences? Up to the influences.

The pro-Harman people dictate that you will be happiest listening to Dan Clark Audio Stealth headphones since it follows the Harman curve, since the Harman people already studied your preferences by proxy.

although, really there should be no reason there is not a Harman type curve for interpretation of music by orchestra. So it could be that one is correct according to the average human preference curve.
 

GaryH

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We already have a common standard target, it's called flat response. That is how the sound is not changed.
Ah, I see the problem here, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the research, conflating anechoically flat response of a good studio speaker, flat response of a headphone as measured by an artificial ear simulator / HATS (Head and Torso Simulator), and perceptually flat/neutral response as heard by a listener. I suggest reading this carefully in order for you to learn the difference before commenting further.
 
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don'ttrustauthority

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Ah, I see the problem here, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the research, conflating anechoically flat response of a good studio speaker, flat response of a headphone as measured by an artificial ear simulator / HATS (Head and Torso Simulator), and perceptually flat/neutral response as heard by a listener. I suggest reading this carefully in order for you to learn the difference before commenting further.
What is funny is that they agree with what I said: there is not just one correct Harman curve.

I see the problem here: you are assuming recordings are made in the studio using loudspeakers. That is an incorrect assumption. Many of the existing recordings we have are recorded with headphones, in the studio or live. So in your attempt to maintain sound for one recording, you seem to be making worse the sound for other recordings. By changing the frequency response.

on the other hand, The Stealth does sound great!
 
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GaryH

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What is funny is that they agree with what I said: there is not just one correct Harman curve.
He was just referring to the development of the curve as greater samples of listeners were tested over the years, meaning the latest will likely be closest to the preference of an average listener. They are pretty similar anyway.

I see the problem here: you are assuming recordings are made in the studio using loudspeakers. That is an incorrect assumption. Many of the existing recordings we have are recorded with headphones, in the studio or live. So in your attempt to maintain sound for one recording, you seem to be making worse the sound for other recordings. By changing the frequency response.
Most recordings will have their final mastering before release (which is what matters here) done with studio speakers. For the few that don't and use headphones with response far from that of studio speakers, that's just yet another cause of audio's circle of confusion, which Dr Sean Olive and Harman are trying to finally break at the reproduction side due to the lack of action in proper standardisation by the music industry at the production side. And it looks like it's thankfully working, with more and more headphones like the DCA Stealth that follow the Harman target being produced. The circle of confusion has to be broken somewhere at some time, and the Harman target is a standard that is least disruptive to the industry as it follows both the tonality of a good speaker in a good room, and the preference of the majority of listeners (including you judging by your praise of the Stealth).
 
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