GR Research

[captainbeefheart]

I wonder if he even knows there is an entire forum making fun of him, and this isn't a tiny forum either.

 

[MarcT]

I wonder if he even knows there is an entire forum making fun of him, and this isn't a tiny forum either.

He does. He alluded to it in a new video about the new Klipsch RP-600M II speaker that he took apart.

 

[Ageve]

Someone changed the server to one that uses the wrong resistors and it is smearing the data.

It could be the cables as well. Everyone knows they make a huge difference. If you can't measure it, just trust me. I know.

(and yes, it's sarcasm )

 

[ta240]

It could be the cables as well. Everyone knows they make a huge difference. If you can't measure it, just trust me. I know.

(and yes, it's sarcasm )

oh, no! Someone let them touch the ground.

 

[ta240]

I wonder if he even knows there is an entire forum making fun of him, and this isn't a tiny forum either.

I'd guess that he likes it. It energizes his fanbase and makes him someone to rally around for that side of the argument. And given that he sets the terms of the argument; it seems it is one he can never lose. He even flips it and calls the science based people "flat earthers".

 

[Pops106]

Just signed up after lurking for a while to reply to the thread.

I haven't been into this all that long but I have redesigned/upgraded a crossover in an old Ruark speaker as a test. Do I believe it sounds better, yes but did I go ahead and do all my other speakers... not yet. It wasn't exactly a huge transformation but I can hear more rasp on certain vocals. To be fair could be just distortion and a screwed something up.

Anyway, I did email Danny before upgrading and sent a picture of my crossover. He replied promptly and this is what he said.

Hello Jody,

Well, thanks for watching the video's.

As per the picture that you sent me of the crossover. There is some good
and some bad there. The coils are okay. At least they are air core
inductors. The capacitors, those binding posts, and wiring is really
bad. There is a LOT of upside potential there.

I'd focus on that and your room placement and treatment first.

Thanks,
Danny

I replied and said I was thinking about redesigning the crossover, his reply was basically learn a lot more before you start messing around with them.

I thought his responses where pretty decent to be honest.

 

[kokakolia]

I think he is straddling a really unethical line. I don't understand this personality thing in Audio. I think this fundamentally is why ASR is important for people so they have a platform that is evidence based. It allows for open inquiry. That's so vital for people to grow and learn. That's my experience so far.

ASR has a reason to exist, but they have their issues as well.

I personally think that ASR is too dogmatic in putting so much importance on measurements and reaching a set target. ASR often hastily categorizes products as "junk" because they don't meet the expected measurements. So if you lean into ASR too much, you'll miss out on a lot of products and probably end up buying a pair of speakers you don't particularily enjoy because "they measure better". And you'll also be mocked for owning a tube amplifier or unorthodox speakers. Because measurements matter more than personal fulfillment on ASR.

As a subjectivist I seek to experience audio gear in person and form my own opinions. I prefer personanlized buying advice over recommendations based purely on 4 sets of measurements and a hastily done subjective listening test. Reviewers like Darko Audio spend months with a product before writing a review. ASR probably spends half a day reviewing a product.

I still think platforms like ASR should exist for the purpose of offering another perspective on the hobby and encourage manufacturers to make better products.

 

[Purité Audio]

Everyone should purchase the equipment they enjoy even if it is poorly designed, ASR simply explains why the equipment sounds the way it does.
Keith

 

[kokakolia]

Everyone should purchase the equipment they enjoy even if it is poorly designed, ASR simply explains why the equipment sounds the way it does.
Keith

The explanations are thin, unless the product presents an annoying flaw. I view ASR more like a sorting hat. The panther grading system is just that.

The issue is that consumers cannot sample products easily before purchasing. They have to rely on "reviews" and "measurements".

 

[Vacceo]

ASR has a reason to exist, but they have their issues as well.

I personally think that ASR is too dogmatic in putting so much importance on measurements and reaching a set target. ASR often hastily categorizes products as "junk" because they don't meet the expected measurements. So if you lean into ASR too much, you'll miss out on a lot of products and probably end up buying a pair of speakers you don't particularily enjoy because "they measure better". And you'll also be mocked for owning a tube amplifier or unorthodox speakers. Because measurements matter more than personal fulfillment on ASR.

As a subjectivist I seek to experience audio gear in person and form my own opinions. I prefer personanlized buying advice over recommendations based purely on 4 sets of measurements and a hastily done subjective listening test. Reviewers like Darko Audio spend months with a product before writing a review. ASR probably spends half a day reviewing a product.

I still think platforms like ASR should exist for the purpose of offering another perspective on the hobby and encourage manufacturers to make better products.

Dogmatism is the opposite of demonstrating that gear does not deliver on its promises.

That does not add or detract from anyone's enjoyment of said gear.

As a dude that hates 99% of the crap Darko listens to, his reviews tell me nothing.

 

[BDWoody]

Because measurements matter more than personal fulfillment on ASR.

That's completely wrong.

So if you lean into ASR too much, you'll miss out on a lot of products and probably end up buying a pair of speakers you don't particularily enjoy

Is that what happens?

Reviewers like Darko Audio spend months with a product before writing a review.

Writing advertising copy and making an infomercial looks like it takes more time. He's there to sell stuff.

I prefer personanlized buying advice over recommendations based purely on 4 sets of measurements and a hastily done subjective listening test

So, you don't really understand the testing in other words?

 

[garbz]

I prefer personanlized buying advice

Measurements tell you how a product is expected to perform in a given situation if you understand them. You say you want personalised advice, where do you get that? I didn't know Darko does house calls and sits down in your living room to offer you this "personalized" buying advice. Given the subjective nature of audio does his personalised advice change if you serve him coffee first?

 

[Vacceo]

Measurements tell you how a product is expected to perform in a given situation if you understand them. You say you want personalised advice, where do you get that? I didn't know Darko does house calls and sits down in your living room to offer you this "personalized" buying advice. Given the subjective nature of audio does his personalised advice change if you serve him coffee first?

I wonder how Darko would tame the bass on Cryptopsy's records.

 

[Plcamp]

Reviewers like Darko Audio spend months with a product before writing a review.

Please advise why you think that spending a long time with a product tells you anything about its sound quality?

Why is a reviewers judgment of that more significant than measurements that tell you quickly, objectively and with repeatability?

I can see that this might have value for feature use, but why rely on long term use to judge sound quality that can be ultra reliably measured as per ASR.

 

[kokakolia]

Measurements tell you how a product is expected to perform in a given situation if you understand them. You say you want personalised advice, where do you get that? I didn't know Darko does house calls and sits down in your living room to offer you this "personalized" buying advice. Given the subjective nature of audio does his personalised advice change if you serve him coffee first?

Forget about Darko. I feel like the audiophile community (especially ASR) loves to talk about Hi-Fi equipment without even experiencing it. I just don't see the point of this hobby if all you do is look at graphs measuring speakers you'll never see or experience.

I want to do Audiophile meetups. I'd love to have 6 people over to listen to an album and eat some pie. Call it tea time for nerds. That's what I want. I have a pretty exotic system.

I also understand that most, if not all of you are located outside of my country. So it's hard to get people interested, and it's even harder to find people in proximity. Maybe one day we'll experience a new system every other week.

Graphs and reviews are boring! I want to experience Hi-Fi for real.

 

[Plcamp]

I feel like the audiophile community (especially ASR) loves to talk about Hi-Fi equipment without even experiencing it.

Nonsense straw man argument that simply makes folks think you are here to bash ASR with zero real points to make.

 

[kokakolia]

Nonsense straw man argument that simply makes folks think you are here to bash ASR with zero real points to make.

I'll cite two examples:
- GR Research LGK 2.0 thread.
- KEF LS60 Meta

You see lots not discussion. But it's obvious that nobody except the reviewer auditionned these speakers.

Why can't you just drive somewhere and audition these speakers?

 

[Doodski]

Reviewers like Darko Audio spend months with a product before writing a review. ASR probably spends half a day reviewing a product.

I have test driven thousands of speakers and amps and stuff. I can determine if a speaker has good or bad sound within a few minutes. What is your problem that you can't?

 

[solderdude]

- LGK 2.0

You see lots not discussion. But it's obvious that nobody except the reviewer auditionned these speakers.

Did you look at listen to Amirs video about the little speaker that could (not) ?

It is very clear by both the measurements and the sound recorded on the video that auditioning, at least in this case, is not needed for this speaker.

In general I think speakers and headphones should be auditioned at home but see no reason not to not discussing measured performance.

 

[JustJones]

I've heard the LS60 , I'm listening to them now. Haven't figured out how to use REW with them yet.