OP
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- #361
In the one video I watched, he had claimed that the woofer, cabinet and port do their thing there so why bother to measure.
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GR Research Speaker Upgrade Review (Sierra-2EX V2)
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PristineSound
Major Contributor
Most importantly, the manufacturer's measurements were done on a high resolution, industrial precision tool. So if you plan to challenge it with your own measurements, you need to make sure you are using something that is of equal or greater precision.
This isn't a knock on some casual DIYer's and their use of CLIO and a Dayton EMM-6 mic but facts are facts, whether your feelings are hurt or not: the most accurate speaker measurement method/tool is the NFS or a proper anechoic chamber (the larger the better), full stop.
Now back to Danny, he's got to be so stupid to allude to the CLIO as some sort of standard bearer and somehow it's adequate to be used for his purpose.
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If "his purpose" is to persuade his cult of the credulous to part with hundreds of their hard-earned dollars/euros for a bag of parts and a schematic, it is apparently quite "adequate", isn't it?
PristineSound
Major Contributor
Fair point. The only people who are intellectually more inadequate than Danny . . .If "his purpose" is to persuade his cult of the credulous to part with hundreds of their hard-earned dollars/euros for a bag of parts and a schematic, it is apparently quite "adequate", isn't it?
Ricardojoa
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Here at asr , measurements are more important than what the speaker actually sounds. But with a poor measurement to start with, is up to the user to tested out about the sound vs measurement. Like i said, i really doubt danny even heard his modded speakers. He just go by his poor measurements.
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The answer is of course that there's no easy money to be made there for him.
a4eaudio
Addicted to Fun and Learning
What measurement mic does the NFS and anechoic chamber use?
Dave Bullet
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That's quite odd, since we can only reliably assess and implement baffle step compensation if we can see what is happening below 200Hz.
His goto excuse has been room influence. Despite the fact that there are ways to work around, is what he was taught decades ago and is unwilling to update his process. Also his followers accept this excuse and so he has little motivation to change. It is comparable to his odd mix of 25 dB scaling and 1/3 octave smoothing. It is like making a flight plan to fly close to the ground but ignoring how low the valleys get and how high the hills really are.
As we know, there are better speaker measurement standards now and would seem reasonable for Danny to adopt them. He is too comfortable with his flawed process and it is not better. For that matter, we continue to show how flawed and inconsistent his measurements are, but he deflects and plays the victim card instead. In any other disciplined measurement environment, results like GRs would be tossed out as unreliable and untrustworthy. Instead some hold out that he gets “pretty good” results some of the time.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #370
Neither mandate one. You pick the microphone you want to use and provide its calibration file to the control software.
I opted to get one through Klippel as to avoid finger pointing. It is made by Gefell and is model MM225 I think.
Erin uses an Earthworks mic from what I recall.
Harman uses a microphone array that they made. I don't know the brand of theirs.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #371
Yeh... On Audiocircle, his one line defense was that I hate him. And that is that.
Buckchester
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Danny does his thing so why bother to listen?
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Danny does his thing so why bother to listen?
Well, because in the process he attempts to discredit competent designers it seems.
Buckchester
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It was just a joke. And I didn’t have us in mind, more so the people he preaches too.
PristineSound
Major Contributor
What I am about to say, will inevitably come across as a snobby stuck up jerk, especially on the Internet with so many diverse people. If it's going to hurt some feelings no matter what, I don't plan to waste my time to trip over my words, so just gonna say it the way it is.
None of them (reputable entities who plan on developing high quality, well designed product or research) uses a $60 Dayton mic. Is there something wrong with a $60 Dayton mic for the purpose of high precision speaker measurement? Stupid question, of course there is.
And of course price don't automatically equate to high quality, as evident with Danny's crossover kit, but high quality never ever equates to cheap price
R-Carpenter
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It's a mystery to me how people designed and measured fantastic speakers before klippel.
Wesseling Audio Lab
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It's no mystery to many of us! The big advantage breakthrough was software simulation
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PristineSound
Major Contributor
Since I'm already on a roll hurting feelings, I might as well keep going.
Speakers as a collective whole from just a decade ago compared to speakers of today has a noticeable objective performance gap.
The best speakers of yesterday were all designed using an anechoic chamber.
I believe the gap between the performance of speakers from yesterday and today is largely due to the tooling. The best method of yesterday was an anechoic chamber, but it was super laborious. You had to manually position the mic for each measurement. Then you have to wait for a day of moderate temperature, humidity and wind to take the speaker outside to measure the bass on a 20-30 foot pole and then stitch it together with the initials anechoic measurements. Maybe some had custom toolings that would reduce the time and effort in measuring speakers.
I once tried to do a quasi-anechoic measurement manually just to go through the experience, it was such a waste of my time and never attempted it again, my time is way too valuable for this ancient practice. It's akin to my most recent experience with coding and debugging without having AI to support you.
But today, the NFS is a fully automated robotic arm, you set it up, click the go button and walk away for few hours and you come back with high resolution, high precision results. It makes iterations easy and reliable. Other tools like the Dynaduio Jupiter enables faster measurements as well.
R-Carpenter
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It is also a mystery to me how commercial speaker companies are able to put out mediocre designs, having access to funds and top notch tooling.
they are simply building to a price point and profit margin...for the corporate types it's never (in recent memory) been about "good" it's about their wallets, and stockholder profits....
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