I would not take Danny at his word on any sales figures.
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GR Research Speaker Upgrade Review (Sierra-2EX V2)
- Thread starter amirm
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PristineSound
Major Contributor
I have serious doubts. People like him exaggerates quite a bit on their accomplishments, success, etc. because it brings credibility. You need to be confident to be a con man.
He once claimed that his revenue is "millions" selling crossover upgrades. And yet, he can't afford to upgrade his speaker measurement equipment to get into the big leagues.
a4eaudio
Addicted to Fun and Learning
GR Research has been on Audio Circle for 23 years and he has 91K YouTube subscribers to his channel. I don't' see any reason he hasn't sold a lot of stuff. (Just stating that as facts, I am not a fan.)
A Dayton EMM-6 mic ($60) and a Behringer UMC202HD is all you need for a small shop to be within CTA2034's recommended accuracy. His tools aren't the problem, it is what he does (or does not do) with those tools that are the problem.
Dave has consistently demonstrated an exemplary ability to take feedback and turn it into meaningful action that genuinely benefits the community. While his sales approach can occasionally be a bit effusive, it still pales in comparison to the outright deceptive tactics we often see from GR.
I don’t wish anything negative on GR. That said, I do believe sales tactics and company behavior reveal a great deal about which companies are truly good to work with and which ones consistently stand behind the quality of their products.
One positive takeaway from the rise of better data and technology is that it has become much harder to sell products solely on vague promises of achieving “audio nirvana.”
I don’t wish anything negative on GR. That said, I do believe sales tactics and company behavior reveal a great deal about which companies are truly good to work with and which ones consistently stand behind the quality of their products.
One positive takeaway from the rise of better data and technology is that it has become much harder to sell products solely on vague promises of achieving “audio nirvana.”
PristineSound
Major Contributor
Having 91k doesn't necessarily translate to business. I do believe he has customers, and I do believe it makes enough to sustain a fairly comfortable life.
But let's work out the math. There's about 135m households in the US, let's say about 25% have a dedicated speakers that's not part of your TV, soundbar, or a Bluetooth speaker, etc. Of that, let's say 10% are serious enough about HiFi. Of that, let's say 3% would "upgrade" their crossovers. Of that, let's say 2% would go with Danny. This hobby is just too small of a niche and that crossover upgrade is even more niche.
Of course all of these numbers are completely speculative but any counter estimate is just as speculative.
Did you see Amir's companion video to this review? How he broke down that from the measurement tools to the method is not up to snuff?
With 3 "great" votes it is clear that a few of his Cronies have infiltrated this site and/or we have some wannabe comedians. 
tineared
Addicted to Fun and Learning
"I think it's the new guy"
R-Carpenter
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There's nothing wrong with the type of the tweeter. Ribbons are tools like any other drivers. As an example, narrow vertical off axis response can be beneficial in the rooms with hard floors and reflective ceilings while wider horizontal off axis can compensate for vertical and build different presentation. In this application I would use more robust ribbon like larger Raal or Viawave that can in fact cross lower to the woofer and produce much less distortions, handle higher spl, better polar etc. And you can load a ribbon in a wave guide or use one that already has a waveguide.
Decisions by commercial manufacturers are not solely made on the performance tho. It's always budget, form VS function and potential customer base. How many 2-way designs in a shiny black box have you seen over last 30 years? Why so many are produced?
In a way, this situation with the speaker shows how Klippel is also a tool and the results are really dependent on the objective and the user.
In a DIY world, people would caution from using such a combination of drivers because the results would be simply mediocre. Klippel just shines a much better light on it.
It has to be mentioned that a much better speaker could be build by simply adding a small midrange driver and making the cabinet slightly taller. You could let the ribbon work within it's limitations, decrease linear and non-linear distortions, intermods and frankly have something special.
As far as Denny's upgrade goes, IMO it's immoral to piggy bag on other current commercial company design. He is not doing it to be nice, it is all done for moooonnney. So, he is stepping on other man's toes. Why? Money of course.
And that's aside from the fact that everything he did in this upgrade is half-a.sed. Measurements are smoothed out garbage, tweeter is pushed too low. He has tools, he just chose not want to spend enough time on the project.
I would've liked to see Amir dissect the crossover before and after and see the tweeter response in more detail but that would probably infringe on Sierra design rights.
R-Carpenter
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Exactly! In a modern world, calibrated mic, Sound Easy, Clio, ARTA and such make bad measurements inexcusable.
No surprise with Danny. The DIY aspect is still I suppose an out for Danny when someone complains that it has turned out to be crap. No end of value to self promotion on the interwebs I suppose, but this is one guy I would never give 2 seconds of time to (not because of investigation, just simply previous "performance").
Dave did this and showed the results on his forum.
I think it's somewhere in this thread: https://forum.ascendacoustics.com/h...nics/123817-gr-research-s-s2ex-s2exv2-upgrade
It's here on this page: https://forum.ascendacoustics.com/h...23817-gr-research-s-s2ex-s2exv2-upgrade/page4
Looks like you have to be a forum member to see it.
I think Dave will be ok with me sharing a plot from there to ASR. So here is the tweeter response raw, with Danny's crossover, and with Ascend's crossover:
Looks like you have to be a forum member to see it.
I think Dave will be ok with me sharing a plot from there to ASR. So here is the tweeter response raw, with Danny's crossover, and with Ascend's crossover:
R-Carpenter
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This is sort of interesting. Increase of distortions, measured after "improved" filter is at 3khz. It jumps from 1.7% to 6%. But at 3khz raw response of the tweeter is only 4db or so different from Ascend filter and a db or so different from "improved" Danny's filter. Posted Raal data is kinda grainy garbage too.
I don't think I need to join yet another forum.
DatSpeakerTho
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Lol theres no way hes sold 300 of the klipsch kit. The dude is a compulsive lair. Been caught so many times being manipulative. I dont believe anything he says.
Ricardojoa
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Im assuming you’re talking about the dip, the raal 64-10 starts rolling off at around 3.5 khz.
a4eaudio
Addicted to Fun and Learning
According to the video, Danny's mod that lowers SPL around 2.8kHz and lifts the treble should be unambiguously worse...damaging imaging an likely being a bit bright. I have consistently admitted that I cannot look at CTA curves and guess how small deviations will sound. Below is the PIR for the original Ascend (yellow), Danny's mod (blue) and an unrelated speaker (red). The red PIR curve look pretty good to me and I have been thinking of buying this speaker if I can get a good used one on eBay, but should I expect it to sound bad considering it is very similar to Danny's Ascend modification?
(From the screenshots in post #1 the Ascend PIR curve: very will optimized for in-room response; should sound good in many rooms. Danny's PIR curve: colored; likely bright upper treble; increased room dependency.)
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PristineSound
Major Contributor
Is that meant to demonstrate that Danny's measurements are accurate?
Amir spend a large part of the video explaining how inaccurate it is.
Indeed he did. Electrically, that filter is inadequate.
It's not the tools. It's the methodology that is suspect at best. Gated measurements sans nearfield or ground plane stitch, overly smoothed, inadequate measurement suite.
You can do competent measurements with a Clio. Just... Not like this.
PristineSound
Major Contributor
Check out the high frequency, Amir suspects that his mic wasn't calibrated or broken.
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