GR Research Speaker Upgrade Review (Sierra-2EX V2)

[Vladimir Filevski]

Can you point us toward that data?

Yes:
JBL 4401
https://gr-research.com/product/jbl-4401-upgrade-kit/
Before:

After:

B&W 705
https://gr-research.com/product/bowers-wilkins-705-upgrade-kit/
Before:

After:

Klipsch RP-600M
https://gr-research.com/product/klipsch-rp-600m-upgrade/
Before:

After:

Sonus Faber Venere 1.5
https://gr-research.com/product/sonus-faber-venere-1-5-upgrade-kit/
Before:

After:

Sonus Faber Electa Amator
https://gr-research.com/product/sonus-faber-electa-amator/
Before:

After:

I'd be interested to see those measurements if you have links (as long as they are independent measurements)

See above. I don't know about any independent measurements of GR modifications, but I do believe his measurements are not "doctored".

 

[prerich]

Does the modification resemble the imfamous BBC dip that was made popular decades ago?

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

Does the modification resemble the imfamous BBC dip that was made popular decades ago?

No, on the contrary - it seems that majority of original frequency responses have BBC dip.

 

[Buckchester]

As a child raised in the Catholic Church but tuned out pretty solidly atheist by 6th grade, I look at this schism like the atheist vs religious apologists debates that were going big about 20 years ago. The ASR camp is analogous the Hitchens/Harris/Dawkins/
Denett camp and Danny Ritchie and his customers are akin to the William Lane Craig/Tourek/D'Souza camp. Although I do apologize as I believe a couple of those zealots in particular have caused more harm than the sometimes superfluous or even deleterious crossover upgrades.

But just as Christopher Hitchens said he doesn't know why but if given the chance to just eliminate religion or instantly convert all religious people into apostates, he wouldn't do it.
I feel similarly. And also to quote Hitchens, "people should be able to play with their toys as long as their toys don't affect my life or my kids or their school.". Danny hits and misses which is a lot like religious admonitions. The Bible says pride comes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall and those words are as wise and applicable today (especially today) as they ever were. But it also says the punishment for (and I'll euphemize) criminally defiling a chaste young maiden is paying her father 50 shekels and then marrying her (and don't get me started on slavery, misogyny, and genocide). So it's not the place to go to for every issue. Nor are crossover upgrades. In fact, to my knowledge the only undisputed panacea for every acoustic defect in a loudspeaker is a pair of tube connectors.

Final point in favor of Danny and also very expensive speaker cables that can't be differentiated through ABX testing. Robert Sapolsky's mentions in his lectures many studies about human perception. My favorite is that if you put group A and B through the exact same job interview questions but group A was in a comfortable chair and group B was in a wooden chair, then group B will as a whole rate the interview as harder than group A. Audiophiles get to pick their chair. I can't lie, I do it too. My AQ cables I scored from an estate sale at 95% off MSRP are more fun to plug in than my homemade ones and even knowing I got such a deal ads air and separation. I can appreciate cabling "jewelery" even though it objectively changes nothing. And I like knowing I swapped out a few ferrous parts from the signal path. So it follows snake oil drinkers are ACTUALLY having a better experience than it they didn't. I appreciate ASR calling balls and strikes (and saving me so much time and money!!). But in the spirit of the late Christopher Hitchens, we shouldn't be too hardon people that want to play with their balls when ultimately their balls do nothing but look extremely impressive. They aren't hurting us and the truth now is so available i don't feel all that sorry for people that had to burn a few bucks of tuition for not doing their free diligence. Namaste.

William Lane Craig…I know a guy who acts like this guy is the second coming of Christ or something. I do not find his arguments to be convincing at all.

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

Yes:
JBL 4401
https://gr-research.com/product/jbl-4401-upgrade-kit/
Before:
View attachment 529785
After:
View attachment 529786

B&W 705
https://gr-research.com/product/bowers-wilkins-705-upgrade-kit/
Before:
View attachment 529788
After:
View attachment 529789

Klipsch RP-600M
https://gr-research.com/product/klipsch-rp-600m-upgrade/
Before:
View attachment 529794
After:
View attachment 529795

Sonus Faber Venere 1.5
https://gr-research.com/product/sonus-faber-venere-1-5-upgrade-kit/
Before:
View attachment 529798
After:
View attachment 529799

Sonus Faber Electa Amator
https://gr-research.com/product/sonus-faber-electa-amator/
Before:
View attachment 529800
After:
View attachment 529801

See above. I don't know about any independent measurements of GR modifications, but I do believe his measurements are not "doctored".

These show improvements in only one area, we have no idea what the rest of the speakers metrics look like. Balancing on axis response with off axis response is crucial. He could have improved on axis at the cost off axis, thus worse tonality overall. I would argue some are quite obvious improvements but some are questionable.

I would expect to a see a reverse polarity null from something like a speaker mod, otherwise how do I know the phase is right? Hiesmann acoustics gives you this, so why can't Danny?

God, his data really is just kind of sad. Like it actually bums me out with how lazy it is, just no effort put into any of it all. If you want a masterclass in what you should expect from a DIY speaker or mod, look at the data MTG-Designs provides for his DIY speakers.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

These show improvements in only one area, we have no idea what the rest of the speakers metrics look like.

If you open links I posted, you will see off-axis measurements too.

Balancing on axis response with off axis response is crucial. He could have improved on axis at the cost off axis, thus worse tonality overall.

Yes, but examples I posted have better off-axis too.

I would argue some are quite obvious improvements but some are questionable.

Yes, several of his other modifications measured not so good off-axis (I didn't check all of his modifications).

I would expect to a see a reverse polarity null from something like a speaker mod, otherwise how do I know the phase is right? Hiesmann acoustics gives you this, so why can't Danny?
God, his data really is just kind of sad. Like it actually bums me out with how lazy it is, just no effort put into any of it all. If you want a masterclass in what you should expect from a DIY speaker or mod, look at the data MTG-Designs provides for his DIY speakers.

Yes, it would be nice if Danny could provide more types of measurements.

 

[dfuller]

God, his data really is just kind of sad. Like it actually bums me out with how lazy it is, just no effort put into any of it all.

It's like... categorically awful. 4ms has no resolution at all below 250hz, but it's basically useless below 500hz. And his vertical measures are impressively awful.

 

[thewas]

It's like... categorically awful. 4ms has no resolution at all below 250hz, but it's basically useless below 500hz. And his vertical measures are impressively awful.

Plus the few angles he measures are by far not enough to see whether the directivity was improved or worsened which I have the feeling is more often the case with this modifications changing the crossover frequencies.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I have always thought that Danny could have more authority and a better reception if he didn't go for the most expensive parts which are then marked up even more. I realize he has to make money but couldn't he just use regular parts like all the speaker manufacturers do and just mark them up quite a bit to make a profit. So the $500 kit could drop to $300 and he still makes the same profit. Specification values of each piece during selection is MUCH easier with the cheaper parts too and they would all fit on the existing circuit board so they would all fit in the cabinets. Saying that ferrous metal degrades the signal by smearing it, regular wire with regular insulation is junk, and regular sand cast resistors are all crap is not true at all. If you could hear what Danny claims than every speaker designer making speakers over $1500 a pair would have all "Danny's good stuff" in parts already in it. His assumption is that the manufacturer does not know what they are doing is sometimes correct and many times not correct. To me personally it is just the price of the mods and what you supposedly gain from the mods that make me cringe. All of his subjective voodoo and audiophile woo is just scam artist terminology. As a person who was involved in many blind tests of different audio ideas and components, I can tell you NO ONE EVER was able to hear any difference between junk items and good items. We even went to extreme lengths to make a difference that hopefully anyone could differentiate and still, no one could tell high end from bottom of the barrel. So the supposed nuances and other woo that is always used to tell how amazing tube connectors are is pure BS. The speakers ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS dominate what you hear.This makes it very hard to impossible to hear any difference in items under test earlier than the speakers in the audio chain. Now of course I mean equipment operating in its normal range and such. I normally don't post on this stuff as I tend to get my blood pressure up. But I took the bait and posted as Danny is a first class scammer.

 

[PristineSound]

I am willing to bet $20 that Danny Ritchie will make a video in response to this review and to Amir's video.

I am interested to learn what in the world will he say in his response video. We shall see.

 

[kemmler3D]

we shouldn't be too hardon people that want to play with their balls when ultimately their balls do nothing but look extremely impressive. They aren't hurting us and the truth now is so available i don't feel all that sorry for people that had to burn a few bucks of tuition for not doing their free diligence. Namaste.

The issue isn't people happily playing with their snake oil, it's the ones selling it and pushing a narrative that is fundamentally opposed to accountability for audio manufacturers.

That narrative is every audiophile's business because it's arguably set the audio market back 10 years or more. When consumers fail to demand reliable specs on objective performance, or when they're taken in by snake oil pushers, their money flows to stuff that doesn't work instead of stuff that does. This impairs the development of audio equipment that actually performs better.

Amir, Erin and others can take credit for pushing the industry toward better objective performance. IIRC Ascend started using a Klippel scanner and tightening up off axis response due to Amir.

Imagine if the type of nonsense Danny peddles never took off. If the industry collectively got its act together in the 70s instead of going down the subjectivist path, we might have had Ascilab-level speakers 5-10 years ago. We might have 6 or 10 brands making Hypex-tier amp modules today instead of 2.

Danny himself isn't responsible for all the snake oil out there, but his style of marketing is far from harmless, and fighting it is clearly worthwhile for consumers.

 

[tineared]

The issue isn't people happily playing with their snake oil, it's the ones selling it and pushing a narrative that is fundamentally opposed to accountability for audio manufacturers.

That narrative is every audiophile's business because it's arguably set the audio market back 10 years or more. When consumers fail to demand reliable specs on objective performance, or when they're taken in by snake oil pushers, their money flows to stuff that doesn't work instead of stuff that does. This impairs the development of audio equipment that actually performs better.

Amir, Erin and others can take credit for pushing the industry toward better objective performance. IIRC Ascend started using a Klippel scanner and tightening up off axis response due to Amir.

Imagine if the type of nonsense Danny peddles never took off. If the industry collectively got its act together in the 70s instead of going down the subjectivist path, we might have had Ascilab-level speakers 5-10 years ago. We might have 6 or 10 brands making Hypex-tier amp modules today instead of 2.

Danny himself isn't responsible for all the snake oil out there, but his style of marketing is far from harmless, and fighting it is clearly worthwhile for consumers.

Danny's customers are likely the same folks who buy products from infomercials and late night home shopping networks
They're too lazy to do any research on their own, so they consume what is fed to them

 

[JSmith]

They're too lazy to do any research on their own

No need... Research is in the name, all is well, must be trustworthy.


JSmith

 

[tineared]

Are you guys saying the customers have some blame in creating people like Danny Richie?

Caveat Emptor

 

[Maxim-ICOM]

No, it will not. Have you ever measured a loudspeaker in a room?

Vladimir, I measured many speakers in many rooms. Have not counted, but looks over hundred of different brands and models from Kef, Audes, Estelon, Sonus Faber, Sonos, B&W, Focal, Jamo, Klipsch, Perlisten, Piega, Q, Canton, DefTech, Bose, Amphion, Linn, Magnat, Yamaha, custom DIY, etc ....

No, it will not. Have you ever been in a real room, where people are actually living? No real room is so empty.

I've seen many rooms including dead ones where people doing own "room acoustics improvement" filled with lot of DY panels with rockwoll and acoustic foam and on another side empty barn-studio style with concrete wall and ceiling with no rugs with floor to ceiling windows with absolute echo.

Well, what about anechoic measurements down to 20 Hz in a ordinary (largish) room?

Neither Clio nor Klipped can do it. But both have nice math what can build close to realistic estimates based on near+far field measurements.
Indeed true anechoic measurements with Clio or Klippel even in this room https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/101765-largest-anechoic-test-chamber will have compromises for 20Hz

 

[Spkrdctr]

It is not all innocent. People get ripped off as they have no science knowledge. For example a 20 year old female who has near zero science knowledge could easily get sucked into wasting money on voodoo products. A young couple saving up a few thousand dollars to get "a good stereo" and they get scammed and end up wasting a lot of their money on junk, rather than putting it into good speakers. So many people (millions) are not science oriented. They rely on what they read or see and snake oil pushers are scum of the earth ripping people off to line their pockets. Just because someone is not science oriented does NOT mean they need to be ripped off or that they asked for it by not doing a lot of research that they would not understand anyways. Think of most Moms, and you get the idea. Ripping people off is not harmless and does in effect steal from people. For example why do you think Bose Acoustimass systems were the best selling systems in the 1990s and early 2000s? The people didn't know anything about sound systems and were sucked in by the Bose corporations lying advertising. This is the first and foremost reason ASR is amazing. Amir cuts through the BS on products and even if you know nothing about a product you can read his reviews, skip all the graphs and go to his listening tests and recommendation. That alone will help most people buy so much better products. They can get all that for free. ASR is an amazing site and deserves our support!

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

Yes, but examples I posted have better off-axis too.

Very limited angles, and the angles arent labeled. Most people do at minimum 90 degrees.

 

[Maxim-ICOM]

Very limited angles, and the angles arent labeled. Most people do at minimum 90 degrees.

2-3 measurements 10 /30 / 45 degrees is enough to see the trend and understand speaker behavior.

 

[DatSpeakerTho]

2-3 measurements 10 /30 / 45 degrees is enough to see the trend and understand speaker behavior.

Nope, not even close to enough to design a speaker right. Most speaker radiate wider than 45 and might not show DI issues until further out.

Here's 45 on a speaker I made. Ignore bass, measured outside with lots of traffic.

Same speaker, but at 90 degrees.

If you're trying to design around 45 degrees max dispersion, well I certainly wish you the best of luck. You will need it.

 

[kemmler3D]

Danny's customers are likely the same folks who buy products from infomercials and late night home shopping networks
They're too lazy to do any research on their own, so they consume what is fed to them

It sometimes seems that way, but I think we are in a bubble of extremely high audio knowledge here, compared to the general public. It's easy to forget that otherwise smart and reasonable people can easily be taken in by marketing nonsense and snake oil when they haven't actually been educated in how audio works.

Even understanding that a speaker should have a "flat" response and knowing what that means puts you ahead of at least 95% of people walking around in the world, frankly it's probably closer to 99%. Understanding the nuances of flatness and how it's really meant to be implemented definitely puts you beyond 99%.

If you understand why smooth off-axis response is important and something about how it works, there is probably less difference between you and Andrew Jones than there is between you and the average consumer.

IMO this is partly because this just doesn't come up in daily life or normal schooling, partly because the industry doesn't do much proper education of its own.

Someone buying stuff from Danny would already have to have a relatively high level of knowledge about audio to even grasp the concept of an upgraded crossover. Unfortunately, they have been deliberately mis- and under-informed about those topics by... folks like Danny.

e: @Spkrdctr pretty much said the same in an earlier comment. It's too much to ask for the average person to take a serious interest in audio science. It is NOT too much to ask for professionals in the industry to do that, and it would greatly benefit the consumer. That's why Danny's approach is objectionable.