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GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 367 87.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 35 8.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 7 1.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 2.2%

  • Total voters
    418

Rick Sykora

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Haha. Fair. However, the Infected Mushrooms track I played in the video has plenty of low bass. Of course, the little driver was not able to translate much of that into acoustic energy, and what it could do probably was not picked up by the mic in my phone. My point in posting was just to show that this little speaker is not the total disaster that this thread has made it out to be…although perhaps there is some variation from one build to the next.

When playing more approachable music (eg., acoustic jazz, vocal, folk, pop), they sound great to me. Nice soundstage. Startling detail at times. Precious little output below 80 Hz but enough to hint at what's there. I do plan to eventually high-pass and add a sub, but my use case is 75% Zoom calls at the moment. For that, they are massive overkill. :)

Will check out the track. As for build variations, there are only 2 likely ones. The driver and the internal damping. With enough internal damping material or limited airflow to the port, will get more bass rolloff and this could explain difference from Amir’s speaker. The driver is also brand new and may be inconsistent quality. With the level of emotion involved, no real attempt to troubleshoot meaningfully unfortunately.

Will hopefully know better when you make some measurements. :cool:
 

dsnyder0cnn

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Will hopefully know better when you make some measurements. :cool:
For sure. Full disclosure, I don't have a Klippel! I'll use my miniDSP UMIK-2, recording from the main listening position…on center with the driver and an arm's length away.
 

MacCali

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I agree im not sure why people fuck around with x amount db lower then fundamnental :) look at spl and percentage and be done :) it also gives better insight in how much it does not matter at all or does :)
I think the only thing that really matters is consistency.

It’s not like a deceptive move. He probably does this on all his testing. Reason being is that’s what is passable for a well made product.

I’m sure the other speakers he reviewed are on the same scale, and if not this maybe a bookshelf speaker style which runs on this scale or finally it may vary by some other factor which he is calculating if it varies by speaker.

There’s a lot of things possible on this website but generally the good far outweigh the bad.

There are a lot of people here who are extremely intelligent when it comes to audio and will always point out a mistake without hesitation even typos.

But thank you for pointing that out
 

Gringoaudio1

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I got started in DIY speaker building following the Full Range Driver forum at DIYAudio. I’d had nothing but boom boxes that my now ex-wife found visually acceptable …. for a decade. So the TangBand W3-871 in a cubic foot ported box sounded lovely by comparison. Fun to have gone through that phase and then having used ever more expensive drivers to my most recent set using Scanspeak Revelator drivers. But those early Tangband drivers were not even $20 Cdn each. That is about what the experience was worth. I cannot imagine paying for the Little Giant Killers. It’s a beginner hobby level DIY project at best.
 

Robbo99999

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I think the only thing that really matters is consistency.

It’s not like a deceptive move. He probably does this on all his testing. Reason being is that’s what is passable for a well made product.

I’m sure the other speakers he reviewed are on the same scale, and if not this maybe a bookshelf speaker style which runs on this scale or finally it may vary by some other factor which he is calculating if it varies by speaker.

There’s a lot of things possible on this website but generally the good far outweigh the bad.

There are a lot of people here who are extremely intelligent when it comes to audio and will always point out a mistake without hesitation even typos.

But thank you for pointing that out
It was definitely a mistake re the red line was placed in the wrong place on the 90dB graph, it should have been at the 50dB level - just like it normally is in Amir's other reviews, from another recent speaker review you can see the red line is in the right place (well it's a blue line this time, lol), both at 50dB:
index.php


Deception no way, that would be stupid, mistake yes.
 

DanielT

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I got started in DIY speaker building following the Full Range Driver forum at DIYAudio. I’d had nothing but boom boxes that my now ex-wife found visually acceptable …. for a decade. So the TangBand W3-871 in a cubic foot ported box sounded lovely by comparison. Fun to have gone through that phase and then having used ever more expensive drivers to my most recent set using Scanspeak Revelator drivers. But those early Tangband drivers were not even $20 Cdn each. That is about what the experience was worth. I cannot imagine paying for the Little Giant Killers. It’s a beginner hobby level DIY project at best.
There are many full range drivers. Search on Parts Express, 3 inch full range drivers. There are 51 pcs with price from $4 to $150. Various manufacturers:


4 inch full range drivers. Then 54 pieces from $12 to $230. Various manufacturers:


And so on.....

Build something fun with full range drivers. Let the creativity flow. Alone or together with children or grandchildren perhaps? Minions, or Lego speakers?:)
Check this out:

 

DanielT

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Danny has made a 2.1 version. Now together with a small bass element. Why does such a small bass driver? This is what they look like:

Screenshot_2022-10-04_094959.jpg


Danny has done some measurements on them:

Screenshot_2022-10-04_095236.jpg



Edit:
Why not make a classic three-way speaker? That 2.1 seems rather unnecessary in my eyes. A 10 - 12 inch woofer crossover around 500-1200 Hz .
Plus a sensible tweeter, for example:


That would have made much more sense. I think.:)
 
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Joppe Peelen

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It was definitely a mistake re the red line was placed in the wrong place on the 90dB graph, it should have been at the 50dB level - just like it normally is in Amir's other reviews, from another recent speaker review you can see the red line is in the right place (well it's a blue line this time, lol), both at 50dB:


Deception no way, that would be stupid, mistake yes.


I agree im sure it was not on purposse!
 

MacCali

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Danny has made a 2.1 version. Now together with a small bass element. Why does such a small bass driver? This is what they look like:

View attachment 235081

Danny has done some measurements on them:

View attachment 235080


Edit:
Why not make a classic three-way speaker? That 2.1 seems rather unnecessary in my eyes. A 10 - 12 inch woofer crossover around 500-1200 Hz .
Plus a sensible tweeter, for example:


That would have made much more sense. I think.:)
If you watch the video by Amir you basically see Danny adding a different form of smoothing which actually makes the speaker measurements look much more presentable and appetizing.

All these companies looking to sell you something always stick to this agenda. I’ve never seen Amir try and provide foolish measurements.

In fact, personally would say that possibly 20% of the things he wouldn’t recommend are fairly alright for a majority of people but he is providing that they are basically bsing. Bs means not recommended
 

fineMen

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A departed design which comes close to top Wilson's in terms of neglect. I personally appreciate the recent trend here to long for speakers that generate real sound. Harmonic distortion, o/k, but intermodulation as described is a problem, right? Compare a retro 3-way design with a contemporary 2-way, e/g on Erin's site, and You face like 1% of IM versus 30%. Guess which is better.


I watched the youtube video of Amir, and I cannot agree more. Once one notices the IM distortion, it remains perceptible even at way lower levels because of its special signature. Klippel provides a self-test targeting typical loudspeaker distortion. Alas, due to extended exposure to really bad DIY designs by myself, I manage to get down to -50..56 dB before I give up because of plain boredom. I'm struck with an acquired sensitivity.

The GR Research LGK 2.0 appears to me as an elementary school's physical experiment, an antithesis to well established knowledge. If You build these, You'll find out why common speakers do exactly not look like the offer in question. Discuss the problems with Your mate and report. Suggest remedies ... an educational task quite worth the effort, me thinks.
 
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nsfgp

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Danny has made a 2.1 version. Now together with a small bass element. Why does such a small bass driver? This is what they look like:
He already said it months ago from his LGK2.0 defense video. He has tons of these woofers left over from the Desktop Mini (discontinued) he needs to move.
 

DanielT

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He already said it months ago from his LGK2.0 defense video. He has tons of these woofers left over from the Desktop Mini (discontinued) he needs to move.
He has tons of these woofers left, what kind of talk is that? :oops:That bass driver according to Danny:

The next step of the LGK line! The LGK 2.1 adds a single 5" Aluminum cone woofer to take over the bass frequency, with the LGK taking control in the midrange and above, where it really starts to sing.

A 5"...It is more suitable as a midrange driver. It still ends up with a classic three-way construction, that means 8-12 inch bass driver that 5" Aluminum cone woofer as midrange and a tweeter (1").
Perhaps a two-way speaker with that 5" Aluminum cone woofer and a tweeter as Danny says about the LKG 2.1: This model features a sealed cabinet design, allowing for clean bass down to 70Hz with a smooth roll off, and easy integration with a subwoofer.

But a two-way speaker with a 5 inch bass and a 3 inch mid/tweeter is completely stupid, I think.

I have a lot of junk at home left over from various projects (not HiFi), but I don't smash stuff together more or less at random just to do something with that left over stuff. Still less would I sell that hodgepodge.:oops:

LGK 2.1 Kit (Pair)
$525.00 – $1,130.00.

Nop I'm not paying $1,130.00 for those 2.1

 
Last edited:

dsnyder0cnn

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Will check out the track. As for build variations, there are only 2 likely ones. The driver and the internal damping. With enough internal damping material or limited airflow to the port, will get more bass rolloff and this could explain difference from Amir’s speaker. The driver is also brand new and may be inconsistent quality. With the level of emotion involved, no real attempt to troubleshoot meaningfully unfortunately.

Will hopefully know better when you make some measurements. :cool:

I finally got around to doing some measurements of my LGK 2.0 speakers today. Here's the frequency response from the listening position...admittedly, there's a desk and 27 inch 4k display between the speakers and a wall less than a foot behind the mic (and my head), but the room's primary function is my home office, not dedicated 2-channel listening.

LGK 2.0 - Amplitude.png


Still, left and right channels are matched pretty well. Probably the difference above 13 kHz is because I did not remove my Zoom microphone boom...was likely causing diffraction affecting the left channel. Otherwise, they are mostly within a few dB of each other.

Here's the step response:

LGK 2.0 - Step.png


That's pretty much textbook...about as good as I generally hope to achieve AFTER applying room correction in other systems, yet this is with no correction at all. There are some phase issues from 14 to 19 ms, but otherwise, these things match very well in the time domain...and those issues are likely due to uneven reflections off of my desk.

Because people complain about output, I ran a compression series, increasing the sweep level by 2 dB until distortion was excessive and/or I saw signs of the traces converging:

LGK 2.0 - Right - Compression.png


As you can see, there are virtually no visible signs of compression above 90 Hz. So, besides low bass, the LGK 2.0 are not dynamically challenged in the slightest at normal desktop playback levels (below 90 dB).

I watched Demolition Man (an old action flick with Sly Stallone) using the LGK 2.0's and the dynamics during the action scenes were punishing. I had to turn the levels down a couple of times, not because the speakers were complaining...but for the sake of my hearing! Certainly, a high-pass filter and a sub or two would have taken the experience up several notches, but it was quite enjoyable. Rendering of the dialog was about the best I've heard anywhere.

Desk.jpg


Do good powered monitors offer better value for money? Possibly, but it depends on your application and priorities. All powered monitors I've tried so far produce hiss that's clearly audible from 3 ft away. This setup is dead silent. Many multi-way systems have audible coherence or phase issues because there is a crossover in the middle of the vocal region. Not so here. I can always add subs to improve low-end extension. Plus, these are beautiful (unlike most powered monitors) thanks to my good friend, Tom, and his excellent veneer work.

The LGK 2.0 are not for everyone, but I could not be more pleased.
 

HarmonicTHD

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I finally got around to doing some measurements of my LGK 2.0 speakers today. Here's the frequency response from the listening position...admittedly, there's a desk and 27 inch 4k display between the speakers and a wall less than a foot behind the mic (and my head), but the room's primary function is my home office, not dedicated 2-channel listening.

View attachment 238844

Still, left and right channels are matched pretty well. Probably the difference above 13 kHz is because I did not remove my Zoom microphone boom...was likely causing diffraction affecting the left channel. Otherwise, they are mostly within a few dB of each other.

Here's the step response:

View attachment 238845

That's pretty much textbook...about as good as I generally hope to achieve AFTER applying room correction in other systems, yet this is with no correction at all. There are some phase issues from 14 to 19 ms, but otherwise, these things match very well in the time domain...and those issues are likely due to uneven reflections off of my desk.

Because people complain about output, I ran a compression series, increasing the sweep level by 2 dB until distortion was excessive and/or I saw signs of the traces converging:

View attachment 238846

As you can see, there are virtually no visible signs of compression above 90 Hz. So, besides low bass, the LGK 2.0 are not dynamically challenged in the slightest at normal desktop playback levels (below 90 dB).

I watched Demolition Man (an old action flick with Sly Stallone) using the LGK 2.0's and the dynamics during the action scenes were punishing. I had to turn the levels down a couple of times, not because the speakers were complaining...but for the sake of my hearing! Certainly, a high-pass filter and a sub or two would have taken the experience up several notches, but it was quite enjoyable. Rendering of the dialog was about the best I've heard anywhere.

View attachment 238847

Do good powered monitors offer better value for money? Possibly, but it depends on your application and priorities. All powered monitors I've tried so far produce hiss that's clearly audible from 3 ft away. This setup is dead silent. Many multi-way systems have audible coherence or phase issues because there is a crossover in the middle of the vocal region. Not so here. I can always add subs to improve low-end extension. Plus, these are beautiful (unlike most powered monitors) thanks to my good friend, Tom, and his excellent veneer work.

The LGK 2.0 are not for everyone, but I could not be more pleased.
This is the main problem, not what you have measured.

1666464576422.png



Plus the poor directivity, which you didn’t measure either.

You have an otherwise nice setup. Get some Neumann‘s or Genelec‘s, than you know what great speakers for studio / nearfield can really sound like.
 

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dsnyder0cnn

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This is the main problem, not what you have measured.

View attachment 238873


Plus the poor directivity, which you didn’t measure either.

You have an otherwise nice setup. Get some Neumann‘s or Genelec‘s, than you know what great speakers for studio / nearfield can really sound like.

Directivity is not a concern since my application is nearfield...there's little room interaction, and I can point the speakers directly at my ears. Distortion is near or below the noise floor for my typical playback levels:

LGK 2.0 - Distortion.png


In my view, the tradeoff is giving up loudness and extension for coherency and time-domain accuracy. One's choice comes down to priorities. I don't feel a need to change this setup anytime soon, but if I ever do, I'll check out Neumann‘s or Genelec‘s. Thanks.
 

Rick Sykora

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I finally got around to doing some measurements of my LGK 2.0 speakers today. Here's the frequency response from the listening position...admittedly, there's a desk and 27 inch 4k display between the speakers and a wall less than a foot behind the mic (and my head), but the room's primary function is my home office, not dedicated 2-channel listening.

View attachment 238844

Still, left and right channels are matched pretty well. Probably the difference above 13 kHz is because I did not remove my Zoom microphone boom...was likely causing diffraction affecting the left channel. Otherwise, they are mostly within a few dB of each other.

Here's the step response:

View attachment 238845

That's pretty much textbook...about as good as I generally hope to achieve AFTER applying room correction in other systems, yet this is with no correction at all. There are some phase issues from 14 to 19 ms, but otherwise, these things match very well in the time domain...and those issues are likely due to uneven reflections off of my desk.

Because people complain about output, I ran a compression series, increasing the sweep level by 2 dB until distortion was excessive and/or I saw signs of the traces converging:

View attachment 238846

As you can see, there are virtually no visible signs of compression above 90 Hz. So, besides low bass, the LGK 2.0 are not dynamically challenged in the slightest at normal desktop playback levels (below 90 dB).

I watched Demolition Man (an old action flick with Sly Stallone) using the LGK 2.0's and the dynamics during the action scenes were punishing. I had to turn the levels down a couple of times, not because the speakers were complaining...but for the sake of my hearing! Certainly, a high-pass filter and a sub or two would have taken the experience up several notches, but it was quite enjoyable. Rendering of the dialog was about the best I've heard anywhere.

View attachment 238847

Do good powered monitors offer better value for money? Possibly, but it depends on your application and priorities. All powered monitors I've tried so far produce hiss that's clearly audible from 3 ft away. This setup is dead silent. Many multi-way systems have audible coherence or phase issues because there is a crossover in the middle of the vocal region. Not so here. I can always add subs to improve low-end extension. Plus, these are beautiful (unlike most powered monitors) thanks to my good friend, Tom, and his excellent veneer work.

The LGK 2.0 are not for everyone, but I could not be more pleased.

Thanks for sharing. Am pleased you are enjoying your LGKs.

Your measurements are interesting as they are very specific to your application whereas Amir's does his based on an industry standard. Along with having a standard set of test tracks for music, this allows for more reliable comparison to other speakers he reviews. Both are valid in their own way, just cannot be compared. Notably, distortion testing is not readily comparable unless under very controlled conditions. Given what Amir found, does not bode well.

When Amir does his subjective reviewing, it is done in larger room at a distance much longer than yours. This puts more demand on a small speaker like the LGK. So not very surprising his listening experience is different too. I was listening to a set of Amir's test tracks on my Purifi SPKs in a comparable setting. Even with a reference design, was worried about bottoming out the woofer. So no surprise that the LGKs behave poorly in this case.

I very much agree with your comments about speaker tradeoffs and potential hiss issues with active monitors. However, am about value and it is not hard to find well designed full range DIY speakers. For example. Schumacher's Ion 4 is around $120 a pair at diysoundgroup.com (with cabinets!) and uses a larger driver with better excursion than the LGKs. Until GR specifically addresses the shortcomings demonstrated in this review, I would be hesitant to endorse the LGKs.

Thanks for sharing your perspective as well! :cool:
 
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Just watched the review video. Amir is a pretty tame individual when it comes to commentary. It's objectively a fact that any company or engineer who would release a product like this is blatantly incompetent as they demonstrably failed to understand the very basics of speaker design.

The fact that they then put such an exorbitant asking price for the privilege of owning this pathetic product borders on fraud. Is there any other way to characterize what gr-research is? They're quite clearly a con. :mad:
 

DanielT

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Just watched the review video. Amir is a pretty tame individual when it comes to commentary. It's objectively a fact that any company or engineer who would release a product like this is blatantly incompetent as they demonstrably failed to understand the very basics of speaker design.

The fact that they then put such an exorbitant asking price for the privilege of owning this pathetic product borders on fraud. Is there any other way to characterize what gr-research is? They're quite clearly a con. :mad:
That's how it is.

Here some other "pearls". If you have high blood pressure, do not read these links:


 
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