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GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 367 87.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 35 8.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 7 1.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 2.2%

  • Total voters
    418

Mark_A

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well, if there isn't the endless defending of the speaker it won't stay on the front page for so long, it is NOT the only speaker gets bashed here for poor measurement, but most just don't have a fan base to keep arguing it's actually a great speaker.

Remember the GR research XLS Encore? and the Klipsch RP600 mod from GR research? they actually gets positive review here in ASR, by Amirm himself, it's not a crusade against Danny, it's an opposition to the claim that this particular product is great, fantastic or ok etc.

IMO it is the scientific way, providing evidence and debate on the fact of the specific thing, not brand image defending.
I never even heard of GR Research until about a month ago, so I don't know about any of their previous products. I don't know anyone here who has been defending the LGK 2.0, although I speculated that it might perform better if 2 or 3 of them were run in parallel on each side (left/right), but still without a crossover. The idea of running a single 3" full range driver in a loudspeaker seems unlikely to work in a regular listening room. A single 3" driver is more suitable for a headphone.

I personally think Amir made an important observation about playing a track with both deep bass and female vocal at the same time, and the distortion that resulted from the LGK 2.0 when a single driver is expected to reproduce those tones simultaneously at realistic listening levels. I encouraged Amir to come up with some standard instrument test to measure that (instead of playing a music track), but he has repeatedly given reasons why he thinks that is not practical to do.
 

Mark_A

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Straw man. My comments had absolutely nothing to do with the speakers, but instead with your complaint of viciousness in audio.

And I don't represent anything at all. Nothing. What is, is. What is not, is not. You're beginning to display quite trollish behavior. Jim
There apparently is (or has been) some bad blood between GR Research and Amir, as a result of a YouTube GR Research response to Amir's review (I did not see the offending GR Research video that has been removed). GR Research has apologized personally to Amir and removed the original offending video.

 

Mark_A

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It's just a speaker? Sure it is, three things it is not
1) a giant killer.
2) a good speaker
3) most importantly, not even close to the price it is worth. A pic is worth a 1k words
OK, so what?

BTW, the price of the speaker kit without cabinet is $289 per pair, or the raw drivers can be purchased for $80 per pair.

The cost of the fully assembled and finished cabinet version (over $1,000) probably is worth that much in terms of materials and workmanship of a real wood veneer hand finished cabinet, but obviously putting a single $40 driver in a cabinet like that doesn't make much sense. From what I can tell GR-Research outsources the custom cabinet versions to Denton Woodworkers.

Personally, I think my Sennheiser HD-660S headphones at less than $400 is much better solution for computer or near-field listening.
 

tomtoo

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OK, so what?

BTW, the price of the speaker kit without cabinet is $289 per pair, or the raw drivers can be purchased for $80 per pair.

The cost of the fully assembled and finished cabinet version (over $1,000) probably is worth that much in terms of materials and workmanship of a real wood veneer hand finished cabinet, but obviously putting a single $40 driver in a cabinet like that doesn't make much sense. From what I can tell GR-Research outsources the custom cabinet versions to Denton Woodworkers.

Personally, I think my Sennheiser HD-660S headphones at less than $400 is much better solution for computer or near-field listening.

You told all.

"...,.but obviously putting a single $40 driver in a cabinet like that doesn't make much sense..,.."

So all talked, exactly what Amir and the measurements told. Nothing new.
 

Everett T

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OK, so what?

BTW, the price of the speaker kit without cabinet is $289 per pair, or the raw drivers can be purchased for $80 per pair.

The cost of the fully assembled and finished cabinet version (over $1,000) probably is worth that much in terms of materials and workmanship of a real wood veneer hand finished cabinet, but obviously putting a single $40 driver in a cabinet like that doesn't make much sense. From what I can tell GR-Research outsources the custom cabinet versions to Denton Woodworkers.

Personally, I think my Sennheiser HD-660S headphones at less than $400 is much better solution for computer or near-field listening.
I won't disagree with headphones being better then this and many speakers. I will however restate that the retail price for a finished pair is absolutely ridiculous. I can build speakers, kit or from scratch, that doesn't mean that everyone can and that makes the price ridiculously high. Also, I can take the Mark Audio driver I linked and be under $170 for a pair and that includes finishing.

Again, I've heard good speakers from Danny, a couple being exceptional, so this isn't personal it's just being factually correct about the LGK. Of course there will be those that pounce but the end result of all of this is that people will know this speaker isn't worth any amount of money.

SEO will ensure that anyone searching this speaker will find this thread and most are smart enough to wade through people's BS or personal attacks..
 

Mark_A

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I won't disagree with headphones being better then this and many speakers. I will however restate that the retail price for a finished pair is absolutely ridiculous. I can build speakers, kit or from scratch, that doesn't mean that everyone can and that makes the price ridiculously high. Also, I can take the Mark Audio driver I linked and be under $170 for a pair and that includes finishing.

Again, I've heard good speakers from Danny, a couple being exceptional, so this isn't personal it's just being factually correct about the LGK. Of course there will be those that pounce but the end result of all of this is that people will know this speaker isn't worth any amount of money.

SEO will ensure that anyone searching this speaker will find this thread and most are smart enough to wade through people's BS or personal attacks..
The price is ridiculously high for the assembled, veneered, and finished version because that is what the outside vendor (Denton Woodworkers) charges. Based on man hours and materials required for such a custom build, that may be what it cost them. Obviously, a mass-produced version made in China would be a lot less expensive.
 
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Everett T

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The price is ridiculously high for the assembled, veneered, and finished version because that is that the outside vendor (Denton Woodworkers) charges. Based on man hours and materials required for such a custom build, that may be what it cost them. Obviously, a mass-, produced version made in China would be a lot less expensive.
Even doubling his money, there is no way. You think the cost per speaker pair to manufacturer is almost $600? Heck say it's $500 per pair and he is doubling his money on the manufacturering, that's $250 a pair. So you're telling me with billable man-hours and cost of goods it is more then $250?

See where I'm going here and I'm being overly generous?
 

Mark_A

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Even doubling his money, there is no way. You think the cost per speaker pair to manufacturer is almost $600? Heck say it's $500 per pair and he is doubling his money on the manufacturering, that's $250 a pair. So you're telling me with billable man-hours and cost of goods it is more then $250?

See where I'm going here and I'm being overly generous?
How many man-hours do you think it takes to custom build a speaker pair (probably using expensive computer controlled cutting and machining of each piece), assembly (gluing clamping, and dry time), veneering, finishing, installing the sound absorbing material, assembling the electronics and connectors, and mounting the drivers?

We now live in a new era. Skilled craftsman, plumbers, electricians, etc charge more than $100 per hour, and that is if they are self-employed.
 
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amirm

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There apparently is (or has been) some bad blood between GR Research and Amir, as a result of a YouTube GR Research response to Amir's review (I did not see the offending GR Research video that has been removed). GR Research has apologized personally to Amir and removed the original offending video.
Please don't make up stuff. There is zero bad blood on my side against any manufacturer or product. I am ruled by objective measurements and proper listening tests. I have next to no ability to influence a review no matter how I feel about any individual or company. I can't do what I do with such bias, period.

Do I find Danny's conduct unprofessional? Yes, very much so. The industry has lost its norm in many ways and this is one (cursing reviewers whose results they don't agree with). The video you posted is just an acknowledgement of it and no real "apology." Any such apology should have been sent to me directly and not subject of yet another video where he says objectivists don't listen to music. If you rob my house, a public video saying, "I am sorry; I didn't mean to do it even though you deserved it" is no remedy.

So please don't give credit where it is not due. Nor is an apology useful for anything. A change in conduct is, and that would start by not constantly bashing audio science and engineering as useless. And promoting ineffective tweaks in audio that have merit.

Back to your original comment, post this review, I praised the fixes company has provided for Klipsch RP600M. No one with "bad blood" would choose to a) accept that product for review and b) give it a recommendation.

We stick to science and engineering so we don't have to deal with the nonsense you are bringing into this discussion. Go and post in his forum about his bad blood and why all these public videos which have nothing to do with merits of review.
 

Mark_A

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Please don't make up stuff. There is zero bad blood on my side against any manufacturer or product. I am ruled by objective measurements and proper listening tests. I have next to no ability to influence a review no matter how I feel about any individual or company. I can't do what I do with such bias, period.

Do I find Danny's conduct unprofessional? Yes, very much so. The industry has lost its norm in many ways and this is one (cursing reviewers whose results they don't agree with). The video you posted is just an acknowledgement of it and no real "apology." Any such apology should have been sent to me directly and not subject of yet another video where he says objectivists don't listen to music. If you rob my house, a public video saying, "I am sorry; I didn't mean to do it even though you deserved it" is no remedy.

So please don't give credit where it is not due. Nor is an apology useful for anything. A change in conduct is, and that would start by not constantly bashing audio science and engineering as useless. And promoting ineffective tweaks in audio that have merit.

Back to your original comment, post this review, I praised the fixes company has provided for Klipsch RP600M. No one with "bad blood" would choose to a) accept that product for review and b) give it a recommendation.

We stick to science and engineering so we don't have to deal with the nonsense you are bringing into this discussion. Go and post in his forum about his bad blood and why all these public videos which have nothing to do with merits of review.
Your attacks against me are uncalled for.

The main thing I brought to this discussion was that I liked your test of two frequencies at once to reveal distortion that might otherwise a have gone unnoticed during normal measurements. I asked multiple times whether a formal measurement test could be created to reveal such problems, instead of doing a listening test. You replied several times that you didn't think it was practical (or whatever) to create such an instrument test.
 
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amirm

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Your attacks against me are uncalled for.
And yours on my ethics was? Don't make up facts that have no basis and you will be good. Otherwise, you are going after the one thing I cherish the most, and practice all the time on this site.
 

Thomas_A

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From what I could find, the 10F is a 4" driver that sells for $113 online at Madisound. GR-Research sells the LGK 2.0 (3" driver) for $40. The !0F also has a pronounced on-axis high frequency rise that doesn't appear to be present in the LGK 2.0. Of course the 10F is not designed to be full range driver and is probably superior to the LGK in its intended range.

Yes, it is a bit bigger when I looked at it. However, the effective cone diameter is 2.68 inch, and it is close to my "3-inch" speakers of 2.55 inch effective diameter. My 5-inch mid woofer has an effective diameter of 4.25 inch, so a true 4-inch woofer would be around 3.40 inch diameter and a 3-inch around 2.55 in effective diameter. With some filter for the rise at HF it would certainly suitable for a more competent speaker.
 
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Mark_A

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And yours on my ethics was? Don't make up facts that have no basis and you will be good. Otherwise, you are going after the one thing I cherish the most, and practice all the time on this site.
When did I ever question your ethics or make up facts?

What I did question is 47 pages of comments (not by you, but by others) attacking the LGK 2.0 as if it is ruining the audio industry and is a complete fraud by GR-Research and it's owner (I forgot the guys name). Yes, the LGK has a lot of problems, especially when expected to be a used at realistic listening levels, but it is not snake-oil.

I do agree, however, that GR-Research is damaging the audio industry (or more accurately damaging consumers) with products like cable lifters and other snake-oil products. However, the audio industry was already ruined by dozens of other companies and YouTube reviewers who have pushed that kind of crap (including outrageously expensive cables and audio ethernet switches) long before GR-Research. Regardless of the problems of the LGK 2.0, I don't put that product in the same category as the snake-oil products.
 

Mark_A

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Yes, it is a bit bigger when I looked at it. However, the effective cone diameter is 2.68 inch, and it is close to my "3-inch" speakers of 2.55 inch effective diameter. My 5-inch mid woofer has an effective diameter of 4.25 inch, so a true 4-inch woofer would be around 3.40 inch diameter and a 3-inch around 2.55 in effective diameter. With some filter for the rise at HF it would certainly suitable for a more competent speaker.
I am sure that the 10F is a very competent speaker, and at $113 for the raw driver, it should be.
 

Doodski

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When did I ever question your ethics or make up facts?

What I did question is 47 pages of comments (not by you, but by others) attacking the LGK 2.0 as if it is ruining the audio industry and is a complete fraud by GR-Research and it's owner (I forgot the guys name). Yes, the LGK has a lot of problems, especially when expected to be a used at realistic listening levels, but it is not snake-oil.

I do agree, however, that GR-Research is damaging the audio industry (or more accurately damaging consumers) with products like cable lifters and other snake-oil products. However, the audio industry was already ruined by dozens of other companies and YouTube reviewers who have pushed that kind of crap (including outrageously expensive cables and audio ethernet switches) long before GR-Research. Regardless of the problems of the LGK 2.0, I don't put that product in the same category as the snake-oil products.
A interesting thought exercise would be to place yourself in a position of retailing and servicing home audio product for decades and dealing with the plentitude of thousands+ customers that come your way and ask questions about snake oil purveyors like Danny @ GR Research. It wastes your time and is a absolute farce. It gets so bad that one really wants to just tell them to wake the F&^% up and get with the program and stop with the rubbish products and look at something good. I called it F&^% OFF syndrome in that everyone of these dumb doofuses want to be coddled and treated with velvet gloves while they believe a snake like Danny and want you to explain it all for them. Of course you never tell them what a dumb prick they are and you patiently explain in the hope you make a friend and a customer out of them.

You persist in your continual mind spin and making up more and more, "What about'isms" that are a waste of everybody's time.
 

Rick Sykora

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Am trying a Peerless NE123-8 in the LGK2’s cabinet. Madisound had them on sale. It is more than twice the price but 3 times the Xmax of the LGK2 driver.

Even the Dayton drivers have at least twice the Xmax of the LGK driver and are more comparably priced. GR’s has had supplier quality issues lately and the original Xmax spec for the LGK driver was 2.5 mm and was later downgraded to 1. Combine that with a the small cone profile and you have a recipe for the bass distortion levels that Amir encountered.
 

Mark_A

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Well, there's a contradictory statement if I ever saw one! Jim
There are lots of speakers that have problems. Are they also snake-oil? Are you comparing the LGK 2.0 with cable lifters and cables that costs thousands of dollars for relatively short runs?
 

Mark_A

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A interesting thought exercise would be to place yourself in a position of retailing and servicing home audio product for decades and dealing with the plentitude of thousands+ customers that come your way and ask questions about snake oil purveyors like Danny @ GR Research. It wastes your time and is a absolute farce. It gets so bad that one really wants to just tell them to wake the F&^% up and get with the program and stop with the rubbish products and look at something good. I called it F&^% OFF syndrome in that everyone of these dumb doofuses want to be coddled and treated with velvet gloves while they believe a snake like Danny and want you to explain it all for them. Of course you never tell them what a dumb prick they are and you patiently explain in the hope you make a friend and a customer out of them.

You persist in your continual mind spin and making up more and more, "What about'isms" that are a waste of everybody's time.
Several people on this forum, including Amir, have complemented Danny for at least some of his speaker kits and/or crossover mods. Are they also engaged in mind spin, or do you just enjoy attacking me?

Personally, I have never purchased or listened to any of Danny's products, and probably never will, because I am not into kit building anymore, and not into speaker mods.

My speaker cables are from Home Depot bulk cable I purchased about 35 years ago, which is 14 gauge clear-casing speaker cable priced by the foot. I soldered some decent but inexpensive speaker cable connectors onto them using regular solder. So I won't be buying any speaker cable form Danny either.
 

Mark_A

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Am trying a Peerless NE123-8 in the LGK2’s cabinet. Madisound had them on sale. It is more than twice the price but 3 times the Xmax of the LGK2 driver.

Even the Dayton drivers have at least twice the Xmax of the LGK driver and are more comparably priced. GR’s has had supplier quality issues lately and the original Xmax spec for the LGK driver was 2.5 mm and was later downgraded to 1. Combine that with a the small cone profile and you have a recipe for the bass distortion levels that Amir encountered.
As I said previously, if I were to try and build a speaker system with a driver that handled the entire frequency range (obviating the need for a crossover), I would try and put as many of them together in parallel as I could in the same box, but taking into account the impedance issues involved when wiring speakers in parallel.
 

Curvature

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There are lots of speakers that have problems. Are they also snake-oil? Are you comparing the LGK 2.0 with cable lifters and cables that costs thousands of dollars for relatively short runs?
The speaker isn't the snake oil. The GR promises, comparisons and product positioning are.

Snake oil is one step too far into aggressive marketing, where truth becomes more of a condiment.

You think you're being objective by stepping past claims, intentions, illusions and delusions, and looking at the thing in itself, but you're not.
 
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