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GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 367 87.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 35 8.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 7 1.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 2.2%

  • Total voters
    418

Xyrium

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At best, he appears to be an enthusiast. I looked him up...appears to have no formal education in anything electrical or audio related. Can't blame him for tryin' I suppose.

It seems the driver itself provided the flat response to 8k'ish, then his "design skills" obliterated everything else in the performance.

I like what Rick was able to do with the cabinet though, pretty solid IMO. Thanks for sendin' 'er in Rick!
 

hardisj

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This insufficient by the way with respect to knowing what the resolution of your graphs are. That octave setting is the display resolution, NOT the underlying measurement resolution. If the latter is low, it doesn't matter how high you set the display resolution.

I also told you this in the same quote you pulled from above. (and, no, I didn't edit it in after seeing your reply since I posted it hours ago and you can see the timestamp in the edit ;))
And that's with 1/20th-octave "smoothing" applied and a 0.73Hz resolution sweep.







Are you suggesting that Amir should “read before shooting from the hip in the future”? LOL

tumblr_ptui4u01y31r2pp2to1_500.gif
 

MZKM

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So, what is the usual impedance resolution you provide then?
It’s less than 1Hz resolution, back when I tested the EPDR formula I asked Amir for a copy of one of his impedance/phase measurements, it was frickin >54000 rows covering 2Hz-40kHz; I see Amir only goes up to 20kHz now (but goes a bit less than 1Hz), I have an iPhone 13 Pro Max, and just trying to pull up the EPDR chart in Sheets is crashing the app.

EDIT: I guess the same 0.73Hz you use.
 

Vnowinski

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I was lurking on his site and now I'm very interested to see a test of his upgrades. At $250-$300 I have a feeling those might be snake oil.

Wish I still had m Dynaudio! This is what he proclaims:

The price of Sonicaps have just gone up and it caused a slight increase in the cost of this upgrade. This kit includes everything you need to correct a number of issues and take this speaker to another level across the board. Please see the videos and measurements in the accordion below. The kit includes all new parts, a set of tube connectors, a sheet of No Rez and new wiring.

https://gr-research.com/product/dynaudio-special-40-upgrade/

I'd be more inclined to look Dennis' Murphy's way for upgrades of existing designs (e.g., the modded Pioneers tested here, a few others). Somehow his designs manage to sound good without paper-in-oil-cryogenically-treated bypass capacitors?
 

Bruce Morgen

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For the record, I think it is worth mentioning that behind the scenes, the LGK 2.0 is mainly the work of Danny's assistant.

Mr. Richie is the "R" in "GR Research." His former partner was the "G" and the technical half of the partnership -- Mr. Richie's degree is in business administration or some such. His background is that of an audio hobbyist and DIYer who's learned what he knows via immersion without benefit of the discipline someone with formal training in (some sort of) engineering or a "hard" science would bring to that process.
 

bunkbail

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I also reckon it is the PS95, or one that has a ‘shite mod upgrade’ by GR. Too many physical similarities, plus same Fs 120Hz, plus same claimed Xmax 2.5mm….
I doubt it since Danny mentioned he buys them in bulk and had them made based on his required 'specs' from Peerless India.
 

Loathecliff

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The closest I have seen is when a speaker is mounted to a flat panel and that panel is resonating in sync with the drive unit itself
:facepalm: Danny will have read that & his 'Research Dept' will now be on it.
We can now anticipate his 'World class Enhanced Open Baffling Baffled Speaker'.
"A design so advanced that it's performance cannot be measured accurately with today's equipment".
His followers will swallow that, and yet another snakey product will triumph uber alles :rolleyes::(
Tis but 95% marketing.
 

René - Acculution.com

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It is really a shame that the community is this divided. In my field, we would be contacting each other, trying to figure out discrepencies (perhaps you are trying to recreate some results from a journal paper, and something is just off, or perhaps you need to spend a lot of time discussing a client's test setup), and really get to the bottom of things, before making anything public, especially if it is a really gross discrepency. As Erin mentions, it would be possible to really track down what is going on here (get more samples, do more tests), and you would be able to completely dissect the issue. But this test stops at a point, where the following discussion really only adds to the divide.
 

respice finem

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It is really a shame that the community is this divided. In my field, we would be contacting each other, trying to figure out discrepencies (perhaps you are trying to recreate some results from a journal paper, and something is just off, or perhaps you need to spend a lot of time discussing a client's test setup), and really get to the bottom of things, before making anything public, especially if it is a really gross discrepency. As Erin mentions, it would be possible to really track down what is going on here (get more samples, do more tests), and you would be able to completely dissect the issue. But this test stops at a point, where the following discussion really only adds to the divide.
Is it the purpose of testing (which the designer of the unit regards as a joke) to perform free R&D for such a product? I don't think so.
If I were Amir, I would say, then hire some "serious" engineers.

The divide exists, because you can't "beat" beliefs with facts, that's a human factor with some people, and many "preachers" of all kinds live off it since the dawn of humanity, probably. All things "technical", however, are invented / made by rationalists, somehow...
 
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amirm

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In my field, we would be contacting each other, trying to figure out discrepencies (perhaps you are trying to recreate some results from a journal paper, and something is just off, or perhaps you need to spend a lot of time discussing a client's test setup), and really get to the bottom of things, before making anything public, especially if it is a really gross discrepency.
There is no gross or any discrepancy for that matter. My impedance measurements are simply higher resolution than what he and others post. Rick for example post the impedance during the build and it is smooth as he shows:

index.php


Further, the frequency response matches his. You want to explain how one gets that to match but with a faulty build?

I gave the kit to Rick to build because he is extremely methodical. He followed their instructions to the letter and beyond such as rounding over the edges. If Rick can't build this kit properly, nobody can. I don't know how anyone with a straight face can complain that something is wrong here.

All of this aside, your larger point, I agree and I tried. The problem is, the other side doesn't want to have anything to do with us. Here is the interaction:

-----------
On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 1:33 PM Amir Majidimehr <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi there. This is Amir from Audio Science Review. I am getting interest from my membership to test your new Little Giant speakers. Are you able to loan me an assembled speaker for testing? Doesn't have to look pretty unless you want it that way.

Thank you,
Amir

-----------

Hey Amir,

We have already measured and tested them. We really don't need measurement confirmation.

But if you have a high quality audio system that you can use to actually listen to them as designed, then we might be able to work something out. And then you can measure them all over the place. I am not concerned about how they measure. Like I said. We've done that.

Danny Richie

-----
So I answer:
From: ASR Forum Admin
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2022 1:40 PM
To: 'Danny Richie' <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: New Message From GR-Research

Thank you for the response Danny. Your measurements are gated so lack resolution in lower frequencies. And at any rate, are not compliant with CEA-2034 which allows research into audibility of measurements to be applied to them. You also have not shown any distortion measurements. These are the reasons members are looking for me to measure them.

As to listening to them, I always do that. My system for testing desktop speakers is RME ADI-2 DAC driving Purifi based amplifier. These are world-class products. If they are to be tested as stand-alone speakers in a 2-channel system, then I use a Mark Levinson Reference amplifier ($20,000) driven by Matrix Audio streamer ($2,000). Is there a specific requirement you have here that owners need to have to buy them?

Amir

-----
From: Danny Richie <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2022 9:48 AM
To: ASR Forum Admin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: New Message From GR-Research

Hello Amir,

| Thank you for the response Danny. Your measurements are gated so lack resolution in lower frequencies.

The levels of resolution in that range are perfectly fine. We can take a near field response of the driver and the port to really see the roll off. As I am sure you know, ranges below 200Hz are really more a factor of the application and room that they are used in. So while I could provide a measured response down low, and so could you, what really happens in that range is really a variable that we can't control.

| And at any rate, are not compliant with CEA-2034 which allows research into audibility of measurements to be applied to them.

I am not at all concerned and neither are our customers.

| You also have not shown any distortion measurements.

Distortion measurements are of little to no value and the most misunderstood of all measurements. Audible differences in low distortion devices are difficult to hear at best, and nowhere near the real distortions introduced by stored energy of a driver, frame ringing, cabinet resonances, and even crossover parts.

| These are the reasons members are looking for me to measure them.

Not too many of your members are our customers, and most of our actual customers don't think very highly of your site and its objectives and beliefs.

| As to listening to them, I always do that.

Well, when you reviewed our base level X-LS Encore you only listened to one speaker. Our customers thought that was a bit of a joke.

| My system for testing desktop speakers is RME ADI-2 DAC driving Purifi based amplifier. These are world-class products. If they are to be tested as stand-alone speakers in a 2-channel system, then I use a Mark Levinson Reference amplifier ($20,000) driven by Matrix Audio streamer ($2,000). Is there a specific requirement you have here that owners need to have to buy them?

There are no requirements for enjoying music or our products. Our customers enjoy our products in budget level systems in their garages to six figure systems set up in treated rooms and everything in between.

I do expect higher standards for reviewers though. Those that are really giving feedback as to how good a product sounds should be able to hear and discern what a product can do versus others.

My concern isn't so much with just the gear you use, but the listening room set up, room treatment, speaker placement, and quality of everything in the chain including cables. If you are going to review our products it would be nice if you can really hear what we have worked so hard to create.

As we both know, we are from different camps (so to speak) and have very different experiences and conclusions. You specifically are one of the guys that I would love to have over for a visit. We can hang out, listen to music, eat some Texas BBQ, and bridge some gaps. You can come find out if there is some validity to what I say, or if I am completely crazy and delusional. I bet your followers would love to hear all about that visit.

What do you say to that?

Danny

-----
My final answer to him:
On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 3:12 PM ASR Forum Admin <[email protected]> wrote:

I am unclear why you are giving me all these arguments Danny. If you think anything I write is of no value to you, then that is all you needed to say. I will communicate that to my membership and consider the matter closed.

As to coming over, I love your food and hospitality whenever I have been to Texas, this exchange notwithstanding.

Amir

----

I don't know how you could ask me to do more than I already have.
 

D!sco

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The endless frustration of GR research is the half-bakedness of it all, topped with a cherry of narcissism that refuses to put the damn thing back in the oven. Endless cherries will not hide a fundamentally flawed product. The email chain is just infuriating.
 

AudioArchitech

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@amirm You originally said that you listened to the speakers through your Topping PA5 amp. But then you told Danny that you used a "world class" Purifi amp. The same PA5 that you gave a rave review of, yet right here on ASR many have discussed issues with it, defective units. There is even a poll here on ASR for PA5 owners that claims a 30% failure rate (which I assume is higher since this could easily be manipulated by sellers watching, and likely many PA5 owners who haven't seen this Poll)

Edit: Also, this feels like a bit of a hit piece, you make it sound like GR is claiming that the Little Giant Killer should kill giant speakers, have lots of Bass. We all know that GR means that it's a little speaker (with a 3" driver!) that he is claiming is a "Giant Killer", meaning against other small desktop speaker (similar small speakers with small drivers...)
 
Last edited:

DanTheMan

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I’ve dealt with this guy in the past. He’s actually gotten me kicked off of a board because he was trying to sell people high priced caps and cables while saying improving the acoustics of a speaker was not as important caps…. The angry mob of his followers was …. Interesting.
 

Toni Mas

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2db over a less than 50hrz wide zone is not even remotely an insane bass peak and has little effect on the drivers excursion there.
I meant peak in the impedance curve. The peak around 120Hz is much higher than the other one, as a result of tuning under the Fs of the driver. But they have to do so because with the high Qts of the driver makes difficult a decent BR alignment. Of course Eq can be applied, but what would be the point to add extra complexity to a project with such Zen inspiration?:rolleyes:
 

Fidji

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I don't know how you could ask me to do more than I already have.

Quick q. - if you intend to do YouTube video, do you think it would be possible to record real performance of the speaker [so that this awful distortion is there for all to hear?]

Maybe it would help to convince some of "yes, but it plays really nicely, and measurements do not matter" camp .... [although my hopes are slim]

EDIT: I was viewing some GR Research videos in the past, they started nicely, but it ended as expected, once you start to believe, that you can ignore law of physics. SO this result is not unexpected.
 
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amirm

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@amirm You originally said that you listened to the speakers through your Topping PA5 amp. Then told Danny that you used a "world class" Purifi amp. The same PA5 that you gave a rave review of, yet right here on ASR many have discussed issues with it, defective units. There is even a poll for PA5 owners that claims a 30% failure rate (which I assume is much higher since this could easily be manipulated).
PA5 is world class amplifier. It actually beats the Purifi. It was more suitable for this use as Purifi could easily fry this little speaker. As to failure of that amp, it has nothing to do with this speaker and my working unit.
 
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