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GR Research B24 AC Cord Review

Rate this AC Cable

  • 1. Waste of money (piggy bank panther)

    Votes: 371 95.6%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 4 1.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 12 3.1%

  • Total voters
    388

tomchr

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The horse is not dead. Adoption of such tweaks have become almost universal. Our camp has not done enough to counter them.
"Our camp"? Why the US vs THEM? Is this really a battle worth fighting? What do you gain from that fight and drama? Page views?

Now, don't get me wrong. I do believe that manufacturers' outrageous claims should be tested. Extraordinary claims should be backed by extraordinary evidence. But the evidence (from either camp) should be scientifically sound.

Just saying something is impossible when the other party thinks strongly that they hear something dies not work. Measurements help with that argument. Null testing adds a powerful component.
Not really. Some people can't be won over with facts. Sadly this applies in areas other than audio as well.

Tom
 

tomtoo

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"Our camp"? Why the US vs THEM? Is this really a battle worth fighting? What do you gain from that fight and drama? Page views?

Now, don't get me wrong. I do believe that manufacturers' outrageous claims should be tested. Extraordinary claims should be backed by extraordinary evidence. But the evidence (from either camp) should be scientifically sound.


Not really. Some people can't be won over with facts. Sadly this applies in areas other than audio as well.

Tom

Its not about the people you cant help, its about the people you can help.
 

tomchr

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I'm willing to buy that. But then, why the US vs THEM? Why the dichotomy? Why the war or crusade?

As I pointed out earlier, a technically sound argument for why some power cords could make a difference under certain conditions can actually be made. So clearly the case is more complex than "power cords don't matter at all, ever" vs "power cords make a huge difference".

And I will once more reiterate that I do believe the outlandish claims made by the manufacturers should be tested ... in a scientifically sound way.

Tom
 

Erici

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And I will once more reiterate that I do believe the outlandish claims made by the manufacturers should be tested ... in a scientifically sound way.

Tom
So you're advocating that Amir change his approach to "a scientifically sound way". Does that mean that you don't think he is currently using a scientifically sound way to evaluate equipment?
 

muslhead

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The "war" is with the companies, not the people that buy this shit. They are the victims here.
just curious why the people who buy them are victims?
Dont they carry at least a modicum of responsibility or does their ignorance give them a free pass and make them a victim?
Seems like EVERYONE would be a victim of some sort then.
Maybe this is nothing more than our differences on personal responsibility.
If i buy this shit, i am responsible because i either didnt do my job or because i believied and trusted someone or something.
If you are that stupid, you deserve it. Stupid is as stupid does.
 

voodooless

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just curious why the people who buy them are victims?
Dont they carry at least a modicum of responsibility or does their ignorance give them a free pass and make them a victim?
Obviously they don’t get a free pass. They do have a certain responsibility here as is evident by how these people are reacted to here.
Seems like EVERYONE would be a victim of some sort then.
Probably…
Maybe this is nothing more than our differences on personal responsibility.
If i buy this shit, i am responsible because i either didnt do my job or because i believied and trusted someone or something.
If you are that stupid, you deserve it. Stupid is as stupid does.
Still they are victims of an industry that thrives on ignorance, anti-science and is full of intertwined business interests that try to keep this the status quo for as long as possible by any and all legal means possible.
 

tomchr

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The "war" is with the companies, not the people that buy this shit. They are the victims here.
I understand. But why the war/crusade? Why US vs THEM? Why not simply present the data, interpret them, and move on?

So you're advocating that Amir change his approach to "a scientifically sound way". Does that mean that you don't think he is currently using a scientifically sound way to evaluate equipment?
In some cases yes. The inclusion of a standard measurement (without citation) as a reference line in a graph with results of a completely uncontrolled experiment is one of those cases. There's more to science than simply measuring something.

I would also welcome more objectiveness and consistency in the reviews. For example, in this review Amir points out that the cable is not UL marked, therefore is a safety risk to use. Well... About that. UL marking is not mandatory. In fact, only a few audio companies are UL listed. The cable on my Tripp-Lite power bar is not UL marked either. In fact it has no markings on it at all. Does that mean it's unsafe to use? Will my house burn down tomorrow? Tripp-Lite is a pretty respected brand of power bars and similar products. I paid about $60 for it (12 outlets, aluminum construction, etc.)

Much of the gear reviewed here isn't UL marked either, but that's OK apparently. Much of the Chinese gear isn't even CE marked. Rather, it's marked with the "China Export" mark. As is Schiit's gear, by the way. But that's given a pass.

Comparison_of_two_used_CE_marks.png


Tom
 
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amirm

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I'm willing to buy that. But then, why the US vs THEM? Why the dichotomy? Why the war or crusade?
You are out of line. There is no war. There is no crusade. I test and do plenty of things having nothing to do with tweaks. But you seem to be at war with me. I suggest you rethink what your are doing.
 

tomchr

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I'm not at war with you. I'm providing feedback on your review. Apparently that's not welcome. I'll move on. Bye.

Tom
 

voodooless

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I would also welcome more objectiveness and consistency in the reviews. For example, in this review Amir points out that the cable is not UL marked, therefore is a safety risk to use. Well... About that. UL marking is not mandatory. In fact, only a few audio companies are UL listed. The cable on my Tripp-Lite power bar is not UL marked either. In fact it has no markings on it at all. Does that mean it's unsafe to use? Will my house burn down tomorrow? Tripp-Lite is a pretty respected brand of power bars and similar products. I paid about $60 for it (12 outlets, aluminum construction, etc.)

Much of the gear reviewed here isn't UL marked either, but that's OK apparently. Much of the Chinese gear isn't even CE marked. Rather, it's marked with the "China Export" mark. As is Schiit's gear, by the way. But that's given a pass.

Comparison_of_two_used_CE_marks.png
I think that is valid criticism. Why not list what regulatory marks the product has in every review (or lack of)?
 

muslhead

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Obviously they don’t get a free pass. They do have a certain responsibility here as is evident by how these people are reacted to here.

Probably…

Still they are victims of an industry that thrives on ignorance, anti-science and is full of intertwined business interests that try to keep this the status quo for as long as possible by any and all legal means possible.
I dont disagree with anything you said. Just wondering because our society is full of victims. :cool:
 

DualTriode

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I think that is valid criticism. Why not list what regulatory marks the product has in every review (or lack of)?

Regulatory marks on the cord caps and the cord does not mean that the assembly is listed or approved.

I can go to the hardware store and buy a bag full of Regulatory agency marked parts and assemble some sort of contraption in my basement and still have a unlisted contraption on my bench.

To be listed or approved that contraption needs to be packaged up and sent to the Regulatory agency test lab for testing. This test lab approval process is not cheap.

Thanks DT
 

Jimi Floyd

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I understand. But why the war/crusade? Why US vs THEM? Why not simply present the data, interpret them, and move on?


In some cases yes. The inclusion of a standard measurement (without citation) as a reference line in a graph with results of a completely uncontrolled experiment is one of those cases. There's more to science than simply measuring something.

I would also welcome more objectiveness and consistency in the reviews. For example, in this review Amir points out that the cable is not UL marked, therefore is a safety risk to use. Well... About that. UL marking is not mandatory. In fact, only a few audio companies are UL listed. The cable on my Tripp-Lite power bar is not UL marked either. In fact it has no markings on it at all. Does that mean it's unsafe to use? Will my house burn down tomorrow? Tripp-Lite is a pretty respected brand of power bars and similar products. I paid about $60 for it (12 outlets, aluminum construction, etc.)

Much of the gear reviewed here isn't UL marked either, but that's OK apparently. Much of the Chinese gear isn't even CE marked. Rather, it's marked with the "China Export" mark. As is Schiit's gear, by the way. But that's given a pass.

Comparison_of_two_used_CE_marks.png


Tom
Hello Tom,

I don't want to sound overly zealous, but the "China Export" mark is a sort of fake news circulating on the internet since years. Actually it is true that questionable companies mark with "CE" some of their products without permission, and is true that illicit labs sell to questionable companies fake "CE" certificates. BUT the "China Export" mark itself does NOT exist, nor is is possible to distinguish good from bad "CE" marks using the distance between the C and the E. Actually, to complicate things, it happens that perfectly licit goods produced in EU according to the rules use a "CE" mark which does not conform to the official proportions.

See an official question to the European parliament on the subject and the official answer to it.
 
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voodooless

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Regulatory marks on the cord caps and the cord does not mean that the assembly is listed or approved.

I can go to the hardware store and buy a bag full of Regulatory agency marked parts and assemble some sort of contraption in my basement and still have a unlisted contraption on my bench.

To be listed or approved that contraption needs to be packaged up and sent to the Regulatory agency test lab for testing. This test lab approval process is not cheap.

Thanks DT
What does that have to do with anything? If we criticize one product for not having it, we should also criticize another. Assembly or not. It’s about consistency here.
 
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amirm

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I think that is valid criticism. Why not list what regulatory marks the product has in every review (or lack of)?
When someone goes and replaces a ul certified cord with one that isn't, then I call it out. It is important for people to know. In other cases I call it out from time to time as well especially when it is an expensive device.
 

voodooless

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When someone goes and replaces a ul certified cord with one that isn't, then I call it out. It is important for people to know. In other cases I call it out from time to time as well especially when it is an expensive device.
Why not just do it always. Just as a comment. No judgment needed in most cases.
 
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amirm

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Why not just do it always. Just as a comment. No judgment needed in most cases.
Sure. It is just my time you want to waste. Anything else I should be doing? How about measuring the size of the box?
 

LTig

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this test is suposed to show inductive noise pickup from a transformer
You're right.
A low signal would need more "gain" to play back at 120 dB SPL
more "gain" would amplify the noise also more therefore a lower signal has worse signal to noise ratio.
Now I almost got confused. However the measured data are a fact insofar as the induced noise is 110 dB below the signal peak. If the peak level was 2V the induced noise is 110 dB below 2V, if it was 20 V the induced noise is 110 dB below 20V. The relation is as it is. Adding gain to raise this signal such that a speaker produces 120 dB SPL also does not break the relation between peak and noise because both are amplified by the same factor.

Now if lets say the peak level was 20V the induced noise is 110 dB below 20V. If one now remeasures with a lower peak level of 2V the induced noise would be 90 dB below 2V (same as 110 dB below 20V, because its independent of the signal level). Hence using a lower peak level outside of this test scenario would in fact lead to a lower peak/noise ration

In real life though this cable is fed with a rather very high "signal" of 120V which is about 15 dB higher than the APX can deliver (20V?). This raises the relation of peak to noise by ~ 15 dB. If the measurement had been done with a peak level of 2V a 120V "signal" would lead to an rise of 35 dB. In both cases the noise is utterly inaudible.
 

Paco De Lucia

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Sure. It is just my time you want to waste. Anything else I should be doing? How about measuring the size of the box?
Ha ha ha ha well said
 
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