GR Research B24 AC Cord Review

[amirm]

Topping P50 review?

I don't expect it to add any performance as I have tested gear using my lab supply with that result.

 

[DanielT]

I may misunderstand the point you're trying to make, but from what I'm reading from Wiki this is not what the study showed. And if it were true, it would apply to this web site every bit as much as a "subjectivist" web site.

Of course.

Asch's 1956 report emphasized the predominance of independence over yielding saying "the facts that were being judged were, under the circumstances, the most decisive." However, a 1990 survey of US social psychology textbooks found that most ignored independence, instead reported a misleading summary of the results as reflecting complete power of the situation to produce conformity of behavior and belief.

A 2015 survey found no change, with just 1 of 20 major texts reporting that most participant-responses defied majority opinion. No text mentioned that 95% of subjects defied the majority at least once. Nineteen of the 20 books made no mention of Asch's interview data in which many participants said they were certain all along that the actors were wrong. This portrayal of the Asch studies was suggested to fit with social psychology narratives of situationism, obedience and conformity, to the neglect of recognition of disobedience of immoral commands (e.g., disobedience shown by participants in Milgram Studies), desire for fair treatment (e.g., resistance to tyranny shown by many participants in the Stanford prison studies) and self-determination.[28]

That was interesting! I did not know anything about, the follow-up of Asch's experiments.

On second thought, the Asch experiment was not good to refer to. I thought more about the impact of and group dynamics in general. What is expected, for example.

 

[Art of sound]

I don't expect it to add any performance as I have tested gear using my lab supply with that result.

i figured. i hear a hum sometimes on my A50 with iem's but if i touch the metal part of rca's it dissipates or with background music but it only happens once or twice a week.

 

[handler]

Twenty years ago when I sold this stuff, I owned several "high end" brands and there were always problems: stiff and heavy power cord lifted DAC off the shelf, IEC connecters too loose, won't bend, etc. I've had them fail and one even introduced a hum that was definitely a result of using the cable; after hours and hours of troubleshooting. However, to me the non-UL certification is the biggest issue with this product category. These non-certified power cords are money down the drain at best and potentially dangerous at worst.

 

[Chrispy]

Danny should be ashamed of himself....but that's not likely!

 

[Berlin]

I have always wondered what a development process looks like for a product feature that cannot be measured. What does the QC process look like for such a product? Shouldn't it be easy for the manufacturer to burn in the cable so that the customer doesn't have to do this...?

So there is a manufacturer who claims that his product has a superior property that cannot be measured and can only be perceived if the product has been burned-in for 200 hours....

 

[wwenze]

"a" manufacturer?

 

[ROOSKIE]

Out of curiousity why is the video thread closed for further reply?
Thanks!

 

[Chrispy]

I have always wondered what a development process looks like for a product feature that cannot be measured. What does the QC process look like for such a product? Shouldn't it be easy for the manufacturer to burn in the cable so that the customer doesn't have to do this...?

So there is a manufacturer who claims that his product has a superior property that cannot be measured and can only be perceived if the product has been burned-in for 200 hours....

You talking actual info or just advertising/marketing concerns? Guess who wins mostly....

 

[amirm]

Out of curiousity why is the video thread closed for further reply?
Thanks!

Strange. Don't know how that happened. I unlocked it.

 

[Andysu]

Amir, the way you handle that gr um, snake black lengthy lol anaconda lol need few lighthearted laughs in this warm weather .

 

[DanielT]

One thing I wonder. If GR Research claims that this B24 AC Cord needs to be burned in for 200 hours before you start hearing differences, why does GR Research not sell pre burned-in cables?

Or is it part of the wonderful process to step by step, hour by hour experience how the sound gets better with a brand new cord? I correct myself, nop it can not be so because it takes 200 hours before you hear the difference according to the manufacturer.Tricky this with burn in. He he.
(written with irony)

 

[voodooless]

One thing I wonder. If GR Research claims that this B24 AC Cord needs to be burned in for 200 hours before you start hearing differences, why does GR Research not sell pre burned-in cables?

Because it adds cost and time. It would also make it easier to compare within the return period.

So, any reactions to this test on the GR forum? They are always so insightful (generally is very disturbing ways).

 

[Stretchneck]

Big ass cable should be used with big ass amp, no? Let’s get those 15 Amp juices flowing!

And as usual, @amirm didn’t read consider the description:



No wonder you couldn’t hear any difference

Agreed - flawed review, absolutely zero point ruining this cable into a low power preamp with high noise rejection.

This cable should show what it’s doing with a power amp with poor PSRR (Pass XA25 for example).

 

[delta76]

One thing I wonder. If GR Research claims that this B24 AC Cord needs to be burned in for 200 hours before you start hearing differences, why does GR Research not sell pre burned-in cables?

Or is it part of the wonderful process to step by step, hour by hour experience how the sound gets better with a brand new cord? I correct myself, nop it can not be so because it takes 200 hours before you hear the difference according to the manufacturer.Tricky this with burn in. He he.
(written with irony)

as Amir has pointed out before, because it does not make any difference, the manufacturers/sellers make a lame excuse that "after 200h, yours will sound as it should". that is their attempt to invalidate objective reviews like this one ("because he didn't break it in"), and to keep buyers from immediately returning.

 

[Vacceo]

I think the High-End Hi-Fi industry is in big trouble. The vast majority of these hardcore subjectivists (without intending to offend anyone) are old guys who have clearly never been taught the value of critical thinking or being skeptical. The younger Audiophile values objective measurements A LOT more. Just look at /r/Audiophile and /r/Headphones on Reddit and people like Crinacle who are hugely influential in the headphone hobby. They are mostly objectivists and put a lot of value in measurements. This is trickling into Hi-Fi as well. As the headphone crowd move into larger spaces and get into speakers, they'll be searching for better performing gear. I worked in Hi-Fi for some time and cables were a hard sell to pretty much any young person. Most of them didn't value them at all. The older guys would sometimes come in specifically for a type of cable they read about but most weren't interested. I couldn't even imagine trying to convince them to buy an active isolation platform for their DAC or an Audiophile fuse.

I feel a big shift happening and I think a lot of brands know they're in a lot of trouble once their old, faithful clientele die off. I can't see companies like Synergistic Research, Shunyata or Furutech surviving in the future. And the industry will be a lot better for it.

Any actual gear manufacturer of amps, speakers or sources can work both camps.

You can sell whatever narratives you want to the subjectivists, but with a good engineering behind, you can stay on the safe side of products. Take the case of Kef with their LS50 speakers: they measure well and subjectivists have reviewed them favorably.

 

[amirm]

This cable should show what it’s doing with a power amp with poor PSRR (Pass XA25 for example).

What is it "doing?" and why wouldn't X25 come with a similar cable if that is what it needs?

 

[SebastianKulik]

This is a review, listening tests and measurements of the GR Research B24 AC cable. I purchased it from the company direct. It costs US $349 in the 4 foot section I purchased.
View attachment 218008
As the British saying goes, the B24 "looks the part" with the thick cabling and such. But fails in actual construction. When I attempted to first plug in the male end, it took incredibly force to push the earth/ground pin in. It it hugely oversized. It got progressively a bit better after a few insertions but then started to develop some scratches. Heaven knows what damage it has done to my outlet. Worse part was that when I first plugged it in, it was not passing any electricity! I look and it appeared to be fully inserted. Turns out it was not. There is this "shield sleeve" that slides forward pulling the heatshrink with it:
View attachment 218025

So looking from outside, it seems the plug has completely mated with the outlet. But in reality, hot and neutral pins have yet to make a connection. You have to simultaneously pull back the sleeve while attempting to push the whole contraption forward. Given the large force you need to put in there, it takes some gymnastics to be sure. This whole affair has gotten worse due to ground pin being too long:
View attachment 218010

Compared to my other AC cords, the ground pin is 1 to 2 mm is longer. This means that even though you feel like you have inserted the plug into the outlet, you have not yet. I can see this being done to support the crazy weight of these cables but come on. An cable should be easy to plug in and not remotely have such issues. So big fail on usability.

Company advertising says that you can try the cable out and if you don't like it, you can return it and "get your money back." Close look shows that you are responsible for shipping it back, the cost of shipping it to you and unknown credit card charges. I payed $40 for shipping for 2-day service ($25 for standard ground). So if I ship it back the same way, I will likely incur some $80. For this much money, could have bought a dozen ordinary AC cables. So much for money back guarantee.

And oh, those Velcro cables are mine in the picture. It doesn't come with any. I have bought cheap Chinese cables that came with set of Velcros.

Company makes two sets of AC cables, the B16 and B24 series. These are the number of wires that are put in the cable (or per line?). Strangely, despite its lower effective resistance, the B24 is said to be more suitable for sources/pre-amps than power amplifiers! So that is how I tested it.

GR Research B24 AC Cord Basic Measurements
I am going to do things differently than usual, starting with some simple measurements of the AC cord resistance and then jumping into listening tests, before showing more measurements. Here is the resistance of the cable as a whole and comparison to a few others I had on hand:

View attachment 218012

The large number of parallel strands creates a very low resistance cable. Total resistance was just 0.005 ohm or 5 milliohm. For later tests, I pitted the B24 against the worst opposite which was a generic and thin AC cable. It naturally had much higher (relative) resistance of 81 milliohm per meter (compared to 4 for B24).

If you pulled the maximum allowed 15 amps allowed out of the typical US outlet, you would get a voltage drop of 1.8 volt with my longer thin AC cable vs 0.08 volt for the GR Research B24. The former is just 1.5% drop which is negligible. Still, at 0.1% drop, the GR Research B24 clearly has lower resistance. The edge though drops substantially when you compare it to much cheaper aftermarket cables from Pangea and AudioQuest NRG-X3.

There are no regulator safety standards for the cable. The female IEC terminal has CE listing but the male end just says 15 amp/120 volt. Even if the latter was UL certified, the whole cable is not. So use it at your own risk!

GR Research B24 AC Cord Audio Tests
As a target, I used Topping A90 Discrete pre-amplifier. It has built-in power supply so accepts an AC cord directly. Switching from one cable to the other took too long to allow valid listening tests. Sometimes one cable would sound better. Sometimes the other. Sometimes they would sound the same.

Since you can't hear what I heard, I resorted to null testing. I used an RME ADI-2 Pro FS and looped its audio output through Topping A90 Discrete. Output of the A90D was then captured using RME's ADC. By using the same DAC and ADC, I removed clock variations, allowing for excellent nulling. Member @pkane 's excellent DeltaWave software was used to perform the matching.

First test was a classical record (CD) of Vivaldi's Four Seasons conducted by Christopher Warren-Green of London Chamber Orchestra:
View attachment 218013

The difference between output of the Topping A90D using generic thin AC cable and B24 was identical, resulting in just very low level noise at or below that of 16 bit CD content. Content is copyrighted but here is the difference file for you to listen to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1qftq2r8bkw84hw/AC Power Difference.wav?dl=0

Next I tested the track Hunted from one of my favorite bands, Radical Face and their Missing Film album:

View attachment 218015

On average we null down to the same -94 dB levels. If you listen to the difference signal, at extreme amplification, you can barely here tiny regular noise pumping. This is an artifact of the matching I believe than any audible difference. You are welcome to perform an ABX test as I can share the files here due to kind permission from the band: [youtube comment]

"Missing Film" is a selection of instrumental music I've written and recorded over the past two years. These tracks range from film and TV commissions that didn't pan out, to one-off experiments that have no home. Instead of letting these just sit idly on harddrives, I thought I would make these tracks available to film makers to use, royalty-free, in any of their personal work. So as long as it's non-commercial, you can use any of these tracks for your work and do not need my explicit permission. "

I chose to purchase the album though through bandcamp and I suggest you do the same: https://radicalface.bandcamp.com/album/missing-film

You can pay whatever you choose. Anyway, here are the clips and difference file:

Radical Face Hunted:
Generic AC Cable: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gj74weg67t2bwkh/Radical Face Hunted Generic AC Cord.wav?dl=0

GR Research B24: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pft7ci37d4rbbj/Radical Face Hunted GR Research B24.wav?dl=0

Difference: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpg17rdfjr1g5co/Radical Face Hunted Difference.wav?dl=0

I grabbed another track, I'll Be There Soon from same album which has different instrumentation:
View attachment 218016

This one nulled nicely and all that is there is noise even if you turn up the gain some 60 dB.

Here are the tracks again: Radical Face: Missing Film - I'll be there soon
Generic AC Cable: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5dxg23j6rfeba3/Radical Face I'll be there soon Generic AC.wav?dl=0

GR Research B24: https://www.dropbox.com/s/33l12ajgaiphe8m/Radical Face I'll be there soon GR Research B24 AC.wav?dl=0

Difference: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ys5lva8w9bqghzl/Radical Face I'll be there soon Difference.wav?dl=0

Dropbox can play these files in place so you don't even need to download them. Just click on the links and play them in the new window.

Note that the tracks I picked above are some of my references for testing and enjoyment. They are superbly recorded and any difference in fidelity, should be obvious. There was none in my listening.

GR Research B24 Measurements
Company talks about how their cord "filters" other noise. Since your electronics performs strong filtering of its own, such a thing is not material. But for grins, I tested the worst case of treating the AC cable as an interconnect and putting a powered transformer right next to the cable:
View attachment 218018

The GR research B24 is indeed less receptive to AC noise inducement. As shown though in green line, even if you used any of these AC cord as an audio interconnect, their noise still be inaudible!!! Of course, when used as a power cord, such induction will be beneficial as you would get tiny amount of extra power for free.

We don't listen to power cables directly though so let's plug them into Topping A90 Discrete again and see if its performance changes. Let's start with frequency response to detect tonality changes:
View attachment 218019

None is there. While not shown, the result was the same with the other two power cords mentioned early in the review. I next ran our dashboard:
View attachment 218020

As expected, there is no change whatsoever. Performance is superb whether I use a cheap generic cable or B24. Before someone complains above is at one frequency, let's test at many and include ultrasonics in there as well:
View attachment 218021

There is not even a hair difference. Noise+distortion is below threshold of hearing even though we measure it out to 90 kHz.

Finally as a simulate of "music," let's test with 32 tones:
View attachment 218022

There is not even a slightest difference anywhere in any part of the spectrum with respect to noise or distortion.

I should say that my environment is quite "dirty." I have a workstation running these tests, an Audio Precision analyzer "polluting" the AC with its switching power supply. Half a dozen other devices from network switch to monitor and LED lamp is plugged in. An unterminated scope probe would show ton of airborne "interference" yet none is remotely impacting our audio device. Your situation in an audio system devoid of all the complexity of my system will be far less of a stress test.

Conclusions
We can naturally demonstrate through measurements that a monster heavy cable comprised of 24 individual cables does have lower resistance. And the weave is more resistance to AC noise pick up. As I keep saying though, we don't listen to AC cables, we listen to audio systems. Objective capture and nulling of the output shows zero difference brought to the table by the B24 cable. I have show three tracks. I am confident I can show you any number you want. Result will be the same. Sighted listening can yield "differences" but that can point to generic cable being "better" as well as the B24 depending on order, mood, amount of concentration, etc. Blind test will show no difference because we know objectively there is no difference (because of the null).

Of course as usual, our measurements of the output of the device show identical performance as well. In the past, I have pumped heavily distorted AC waveform into audio devices with no impact on them whatsoever. What hope is there that any "filtering" of an AC cable will make any difference? It can't and it won't.

Beyond lack of improvement on fidelity of the system, I am super disappointed by the build of this cable. It is just awful and I am not talking about the massive weight and stress it puts on your equipment and wall outlet. But rather the poor build of the male plug that works so hard against you being able to perform the simple test of just plugging it in! In that regard, I put any of the brand name AC cable products way, way ahead of GR Research work here. This is poorly done hobbyist work that has not stood the test of any independent evaluation.

While sadly a norm in aftermarket AC cables, the B24 lacks any safety testing. Who knows how safely they have stuff so many wires into its terminations. Who knows what happens if there is a short in your equipment and stress is put on this cable to trip your breaker.

Bottom line, I see no redeeming quality in GR Research B24 AC cable and so cannot recommend it.

Edit: video review posted as well:

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Dear Amir (hope I write your name correctly), in fact its good idea to make the ground pin longer compared to others, it will be mean the very first contact won plugging will be GND, and very last contact on unplugging will be GND as well. But other thing makes big "WARNING!!" in my eyes: as I can see connector on other side od cable have a small notch on bottom side- this connector is for usage with fire-froof cable on deviced going very hot in Europe (like hot irons, electric grills etc). EU rules allow to use this kind of connector ONLY in silicon (or similar) fire-pfoof cables only. Please take care of this. So, in my opinion this cable ist not allowed to sell in any way.....

 

[voodooless]

What is it "doing?" and why wouldn't X25 come with a similar cable if that is what it needs?

The funny ways how sarcasm works

 

[amirm]

Dear Amir (hope I write your name correctly), in fact its good idea to make the ground pin longer compared to others, it will be mean the very first contact won plugging will be GND, and very last contact on unplugging will be GND as well.

Every AC cable is that way already. The difference here is that the ground pin in B24 is longer still. Combine that with the fact that it is next to impossible to shove that into the outlet and you realize that it is a usability nightmare. If it slid right into the outlet, I wouldn't care how long it is.