GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]

[Endibol]

Can one agree with both viewpoints at the same time ?
I mean... I totally agree with John, it would not have to be done... but... at the same time fighting 'misinformation' is a greater good and awareness is a good thing and is your point.
One has to keep in mind that Danny sells things and Amir does not so any objective review of 'snake-oil' and exposing it as such is possibly going to reduce Danny's income.
The only way to prevent that would be to discredit the review and/or author and is what Danny did. Fling mud.
This can be just viewed as flinging mud and ignored and am all for it... but... it is damaging Amir and for that reason should be 'countered'.
What I like is that it addresses the points Danny made but there are still hints of 'snears' in the rebuttal which could perhaps been left out.

I am curious to see Danny's response and the, subsequently needed, response back would be and how long this can continue.
And this is the sad part what John is referring to.

Let's just say that allowing misinformation (regardless if it is a belief or has a financial component) to rampage along isn't desirable from a science viewpoint.

I agree that it’s good that Amir responded to the content of Danny’s video, but it would have been stronger if he would have refrained from any sarcasm.

 

[fpitas]

no thick thick rope needs to be wound.... Amir thanks.

View attachment 291370

I wonder if it's safe hooking that tiny wire to a 15amp circuit. I guess audiophiles will buy any d*mn thing.

 

[Endibol]

I think it's a bit unfair to sneer at the man.

• The cable is not too expensive
• It does have slightly better performance
• It may work for less well designed amp and noisy environment (if "cable interference" is true as the man said)
  • for example, usb isolator improve 28dB THD when using topping D10s with Intel NUC, if you use state of art DAC with less noisy USB port I think you can't observe any difference

Meanwhile, amir is happy to recommend a $1499 DAC (SINAD 120) that objectively has no audible difference to a $139 DAC (SINAD 118).
Why not do a null test and claim the $1499 DAC doesn't improve sound quality at all?

I would like to see more objective measurement result and less "show" like this.

Interesting view point.. I need to think about that..

 

[Cbdb2]

I'm giving my reason why I tried to defend this poor guy.

• The cable actually have very low resistance and it did reduce power noise by 20dB even for topping, the measurement result is good
• Amir is testing it with a state of art amp with near perfect settings
• The guy did good mods for speaker, maybe he want to make some fast money but doing this could destory his business (hundred comments criticize him under youtube)
• If you can pay $1400 for "good dac" why can't some people pay $350 for "good cable"?
• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

Anyway I think it's absolutely not audible for good setups, I won't buy this cable.
But we can do more test, or ask the man provide the tests he run, in a more friendly manner.

All very poor reasons to defend a thief and a liar. Are you saying that power cable is worth it? Its not even legal in many countries! So when it burns down your house your insurance will be void.

 

[xaxxon]

I disagree. Arguing over interpretations of religious texts or the consequences of political/social policies (with few studies) or the merits of personal adornments might be tribalism as you seem to be using it in the modern sense. Arguing about factual matters is quite different. It serves a very useful agenda: reducing the disinformation and mystery surrounding products and technologies as well as increasing general knowledge. Insofar as Amir focuses on the facts and the measurable outcomes I think it ultimately reduces tribalism by limiting the expansiveness of the belief framework that audiophiles use to justify their fringe pursuit.

I think the first video was useful. I think the response you're responding to is simply the second response from amir - and it's explicitly marked as "entertainment"

All the facts were already put in place.

The only problem would be for people who don't understand that gr research "response" video doesn't actually respond to the facts and need an "entertainment" video to realize that.

 

[xaxxon]

I'm giving my reason why I tried to defend this poor guy.

• The cable actually have very low resistance and it did reduce power noise by 20dB even for topping, the measurement result is good
• Amir is testing it with a state of art amp with near perfect settings
• The guy did good mods for speaker, maybe he want to make some fast money but doing this could destory his business (hundred comments criticize him under youtube)
• If you can pay $1400 for "good dac" why can't some people pay $350 for "good cable"?
• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

Anyway I think it's absolutely not audible for good setups, I won't buy this cable.
But we can do more test, or ask the man provide the tests he run, in a more friendly manner.

You can pay for anything you want to. Pretending like it will improve your sound is the problem. Con men need to be called out. If you then choose to pay for their con anyhow, that's your choice.

"there is something worse so this isn't bad" isn't a good argument.

 

[xaxxon]

All very poor reasons to defend a thief and a liar. Are you saying that power cable is worth it? Its not even legal in many countries! So when it burns down your house your insurance will be void.

> your house your insurance will be void.

This is very commonly repeated but is not true.

For example, banks (via mortgages) are the primary reason why people have home insurance because the banks require it. Imagine that if a single bad power cable was let in and the house burned down that the bank would lose their collateral - that's not going to happen.

 

[amirm]

I agree that it’s good that Amir responded to the content of Danny’s video, but it would have been stronger if he would have refrained from any sarcasm.

I dialed it way down relative to what it could have been. I specifically did not respond to many personal comments he made about me or talk about his qualifications, etc.. Youtube videos need to be personal and not robotic as to keep viewer interest.

 

[Red_Red]

Thank you - once again - for taking this essential time to raise awareness or, at the very least, train the common people (in the good sense of the term) in discerning snake-oils and scams of all kinds, but also to try to say "stop" to a whole industry that takes advantage of the ignorance or credulity of each other out of greed (in their place I would be ashamed).
For my part, I ordered some time ago about twenty meters of low-cost speaker cable for active triamplification (Sommercable Meridian and Eclipse cable). Cables not chosen for their ability to transcend sound listening but just for their physical flexibility. And frankly if I had to personally compare cables it is especially on this point that I would do it. Flexibility seems to me clearly more important than the alleged bullshit of a few profiteers.

 

[amirm]

On comparison to other products I test which are peformant, let me tell you what I told Danny when he said I had an agenda. I told him my agenda was to bring transparency to audio equipment. In that regard, you wouldn't know a $1000 DAC is state of the art without my testing. By the same token, you wouldn't know that Danny's cable has no advantage over a free cable when it comes to output of your audio gear. The company that built that $1000 DAC is happy with my review because that is the truth they wanted to see confirmed by independent testing. Danny on the other hand is upset because that truth counters his marketing claims that have no proof points.

Let's remember that he finished his video by saying a veil was removed using that cable. Absence my testing, folks would readily believe that even though it is not a factual claim. He mispositioned my null testing as to say even testing with music was no good to evaluate that. I showed in this follow up video that this claim was wrong and that we were testing for his subjective improvement in music and not noise. If I had not done this test, his claim that null tests are no good for such products would persist.

Overall, I think the work on power products/tweaks is making a solid difference. People have learned that equipment runs on DC so messing around with AC is unnecessary. This has come from testing so many of these products and publishing videos on them. No one had made headway like this before our efforts here.

 

[amirm]

Flexibility seems to me clearly more important than the alleged bullshit of a few profiteers.

This is very important to me as well (and this cable goes the opposite way). To wit, I just bought a bunch high strand, silicone wire to make my test load speaker cables. They are a delight to use although very expensive compared to normal cables.

 

[Red_Red]

that said, I wouldn't be so bitter if the arguments of these companies were frank. Like: "our cables do not bring anything in terms of sound but they are assembled by hand, with a quality aesthetic sheath, etc."

 

[Red_Red]

They are a delight to use although very expensive compared to normal cables.

I don't know if it's easily found across the Atlantic but you should try the references I mentioned in my post. these cables are normally used on stage and have a really crazy flexibility! In this their description absolutely does not lie!

 

[Killingbeans]

If you can pay $1400 for "good dac" why can't some people pay $350 for "good cable"?

Sorry for yet another car analogy (I know some people hate them):

In my mind the "good DAC" is a sports car with way more horse power than I'll ever need. It's silly, but at least you're paying for performance.

The "good cable" is a paint job with racing stripes. It makes the car look like it's faster, but it really isn't.

Is there anything wrong with paying for a fancy paint job? No. Do you deserve redicule if you claim that the racing stripes on your car makes it faster? Yes.

Does an automotive painter who claims that racing stripes make your car faster deserve redicule? Absolutely.

If Danny was just honest about selling "budget audio jewelry" I would take zero offence. It's the veil lifting nonsense that makes me facepalm hard.

 

[Chrispy]

• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

LOL

 

[fpitas]

LOL

Yeah. That's when I stopped caring what he said.

 

[Red_Red]

• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

LOL

yes, indeed, it looks like "English humor"!

https://www.thomann.de/fr/sommer_cable_eclipse_spq240_mkii.htm#bewertung
4.77 euros per meter (with VAT), who says it better! and who to show me that cables 10, 50, 100, 1000 times more expensive have a better price/quality ratio? or improve the sound reproduction in some way? the only "technical" thing that I can still understand is for example a resistance perhaps a little higher than that at EMI with, for example, the Canare starquad... but I also have canare and they are unfortunately rather stiff in comparison.

 

[xaxxon]

This is very important to me as well (and this cable goes the opposite way). To wit, I just bought a bunch high strand, silicone wire to make my test load speaker cables. They are a delight to use although very expensive compared to normal cables.

what wire did you end up going with?

 

[Adam Bernau]

As some of you requested, here is my response to Danny's contentions regarding my review of GR Research B24 AC cable.

If you have not seen it, here is my original video review:

And Danny's reply video:

If you have not already, please go to my youtube page and subscribe. It won't make me any money but will work to improve our influence in youtube world: https://www.youtube.com/@AudioScienceReview

First dof all, hats off for your fight against clearly fraudulent snake oil salesmen!
The part where the guy is defending his livelihood saying that the improvement of sound quality and listening experience that he´s selling is absolutely unmeasureable, but also claiming that it is easily and clearly detectable and recognisable in music listening. Did you try to ask him if he would be open to comparation of his products with the cheapest alternatives with properly done blind listening tests, in environment of his own choice, even with his own crowd? If yes, he wouldn´t perhaps mind that somebody will take care of the scientific part to ensure that it is done right?

 

[Endibol]

I dialed it way down relative to what it could have been. I specifically did not respond to many personal comments he made about me or talk about his qualifications, etc.. Youtube videos need to be personal and not robotic as to keep viewer interest.

To my opinion your videos are interesting and lively enough and don’t need hints of sneering or anything like that. Your scientific no-nonsense approach is exactly why people like me keep the interest!
Happy to have you around debunking all the nonsense you see on YouTube.