GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]

[moosso]

In what aspect do you think Amir's conclusion is 'subjective' and if peoples feelings are hurt by this would Amir be to blame ?

The conclusion about recommend and not recommend is subjective, especially when the rating option is on, people start voting "waste of money" or "poor" after they saw the measurement result and conclusion from amir, they will call the product trash without even touch it. It's too much.

When people playing the "it's not audible don't waste your money" card, it also apply to DAC and AMPs which could cost an extra $1000.
I have a topping DX7+ Pro which cost me $700 though the additional functionality and connectivity is mostly unnecessary. I just want to get the best thing in my budget and support the company built this masterpiece.
If somebody call me stupid because I paid $700 for something should sound idential to an $100 DAC I will feel upset, that also hurts business.

I highly respect man like you, most comment from you is objective and professional.

 

[solderdude]

The conclusion about recommend and not recommend is subjective.

But Amir based it on the measurement results and his personal experiences of that device at that moment and cannot see in the future if it will have longevity/support.
So in whatever light one looks at it, it is always an opinion. Even Rtings has some opinions in their reviews despite the idea of keeping reviews totally objective.
Especially with headphones, with fit (seal) and comfort there will be a subjective aspect as will be with speakers and rooms.
For DAC's ease of operation, ergonomics, dimensions, preferences of the tester will always be there. If someone likes a 'smooth feeling' of a volume control and it feels like crap it will weigh in on the verdict.

especially when the rating option is on, people start voting "waste of money" or "poor" after they saw the measurement result and conclusion from amir, they will call the product trash without even touch it. It's too much.

But that is not related to Amirs conclusions. It is just opinions based on whatever those individuals like or think it does.

When people playing the "it's not audible don't waste your money" card, it also apply to DAC and AMPs which could cost an extra $1000.

When it is about signal fidelity sure... I would say almost every DAC tested (with a few exceptions) will sound perfectly fine to anyone.
Price differences could (but not always do) come from connectivity, datarate support, output level requirements, build quality, options, looks/form factor.
These can easily warrant a higher price tag.

I have a topping DX7+ Pro which cost me $700 though the additional functionality and connectivity is mostly unnecessary. I just want to get the best thing in my budget and support the company built this masterpiece.

It's a perfectly fine job. Sure... overkill for what concerns sound quality but it fits what you need.

If somebody call me stupid because I paid $700 for something should sound idential to an $100 DAC I will feel upset, that also hurts business.

Only stupid people will call you stupid and would recommend anything ranging from a $ 5.- dongle to a $ 100,000.- tube filled marvel to look at... just because they like that better.

It won't hurt business as you already bought one and it won't prevent anyone else from buying it or buying something else.

I highly respect man like you, most comment from you is objective and professional.

I try to.

 

[bobitto]

I don’t think Amir compares two DACs saying which is better, he just recommends both of them. It’s a different approach, as both DACs are good, but it’s up to you to choose. Why should he discuss the company’s pricing policy.

 

[fpitas]

I don’t think Amir compares two DACs saying which is better, he just recommends both of them. It’s a different approach, as both DACs are good, but it’s up to you to choose. Why should he discuss the company’s pricing policy.

That's true. And he does consider price in his comments and recommendations.

 

[Tassin]

And now we get to the point: Amir never says the more expensive one is better than the cheaper one measuring the same. He assesses all devices from a design and technology perspective, based on the same objective performance indicators. A good device is a good device, regardless of price. Whether to buy it or not, is up to the individual.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

That's true. And he does consider price in his comments and recommendations.

I don't know which dac is being referred to specifically (I'm not in the market for any dacs costing hundreds and hundreds of dollars myself so don't even bother reading those reviews) but I'd bet Amir's recommendation does not contain any references to this high $ dac having a "tonal sweetness and openness with a bigger soundstage and better instrument seperation while at the same time presenting a richer musicality that just can't be found in other more 'entry-level' dacs."


And again, as far as giving clicks to the other guy...it's chump change at best. And the other guy is returning the favor anyway lol.

 

[fpitas]

I don't know which dac is being referred to specifically (I'm not in the market for any dacs costing hundreds and hundreds of dollars myself so don't even bother reading those reviews) but I'd bet Amir's recommendation does not contain any references to this high $ dac having a "tonal sweetness and openness with a bigger soundstage and better instrument seperation while at the same time presenting a richer musicality that just can't be found in other more 'entry-level' dacs."

And if he ever did, we would assume it's mockery.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Can you provide proof or is this just conjecture and opinion?

What proof do you need? The average payout for youtube is something around $5 per 1000 views. Even if we give Danny a highly-improbable $10/1000 he needs 40K views to offset the loss of one sale of his cables - and he's probably not even netting $5/1000. He's got about 70K subscribers and his vids average something around 30-50K views. It doesn't look like the clicks generated from these occasional threads here ever balloon his views above those norms. He's certainly not getting an extra 10K views from us or anything like that. I doubt he gets more than a couple hundred views out of any of these fun threads. And if even a handful of potential customers of his happen to find these threads and are "inspired" to NOT buy his stuff he's quickly moved well into the negative in terms of any financial benefit to him...

The fact is, Danny is the only one who has anything to lose by engaging in this. Amir isn't selling anything and I'm not even sure if his channel is monetized. Danny doesn't stand to gain more than a few dollars from clicks generated by these threads and I really doubt anyone is reading a thread like this and then dropping $400 on a set of interconnect cables just to spite Amir. Otoh I can certainly see a person who might be considering buying some of those cables thinking "hmmm maybe that's what my system needs" but reading this thread and deciding "nah maybe not." And if that happens even once per thread it basically destroys the benefit of 50K (or more) video views for him.

 

[moosso]

I'm giving my reason why I tried to defend this poor guy.

• The cable actually have very low resistance and it did reduce power noise by 20dB even for topping, the measurement result is good
• Amir is testing it with a state of art amp with near perfect settings
• The guy did good mods for speaker, maybe he want to make some fast money but doing this could destory his business (hundred comments criticize him under youtube)
• If you can pay $1400 for "good dac" why can't some people pay $350 for "good cable"?
• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

Anyway I think it's absolutely not audible for good setups, I won't buy this cable.
But we can do more test, or ask the man provide the tests he run, in a more friendly manner.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

lol, yes we have. Have a look around...check the snake-oil thread in the Gen Discussion area.


and "poor guy?" Really?

 

[fpitas]

lol, yes we have. Have a look around...check the snake-oil thread in the Gen Discussion area.


and "poor guy?" Really?

I have a feeling our chains are being yanked here.

 

[bunnyfuzz]

It's flat

 

[khensu]

I'm giving my reason why I tried to defend this poor guy.

• The cable actually have very low resistance and it did reduce power noise by 20dB even for topping, the measurement result is good
• Amir is testing it with a state of art amp with near perfect settings
• The guy did good mods for speaker, maybe he want to make some fast money but doing this could destory his business (hundred comments criticize him under youtube)
• If you can pay $1400 for "good dac" why can't some people pay $350 for "good cable"?
• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

Anyway I think it's absolutely not audible for good setups, I won't buy this cable.
But we can do more test, or ask the man provide the tests he run, in a more friendly manner.

You are right, partially. If someone wants to pay $450 for a power cord, so be it. It’s your money… esp. if the thing ends up torching your house.

The problem, though, is

A) No safety certification. Yikes. And,

B) The ”marketing“ (Danny’s claims) is straight-up bullshite. He might believe it. Who knows? That doesn’t mean it isn’t utter nonsense.

At least the manufacturer of a $1400 DAC isn’t trying to convince you that their product will perform magical feats that can’t be proven.

 

[solderdude]

The cable actually have very low resistance and it did reduce power noise by 20dB even for topping, the measurement result is good

Actually it did not do that at all.
What you saw was immunity for induced magnetic fields when the cable was being 'misused' as an interconnect.

All braided or twisted cables are less immune to induction.

It did have a lower resistance than generic cable. Buy any thicker cable than 'standard' mains cable and you can have that for 1/10th of the price.

The guy did good mods for speaker

Yeah, sure one can change filters in speakers or 'upgrade' components.
This is not in any way related to mains cables.

If you can pay $1400 for "good dac" why can't some people pay $350 for "good cable"?

You can pay thousands for a cable. It won't change anything except 2 bank accounts. One with less and one with more money on it.
An active device is not the same as a power cable though.

 

[Keith_W]

I'm giving my reason why I tried to defend this poor guy.

• The cable actually have very low resistance and it did reduce power noise by 20dB even for topping, the measurement result is good
• Amir is testing it with a state of art amp with near perfect settings
• The guy did good mods for speaker, maybe he want to make some fast money but doing this could destory his business (hundred comments criticize him under youtube)
• If you can pay $1400 for "good dac" why can't some people pay $350 for "good cable"?
• People here haven't seen the real audiophile grade cable, check here and here if you want to open your eyes, $350 is not that unreasonable to people have money and want to buy everything best

Anyway I think it's absolutely not audible for good setups, I won't buy this cable.
But we can do more test, or ask the man provide the tests he run, in a more friendly manner.

I hear what you are saying, but I mentioned in the other thread that GR Research has the unfortunate position of being an "affordable" purveyor of snake oil. The only things Amir gets to test are products that he purchases himself, or products that are sent to him. We can not expect Amir to purchase a $10,000 power cable (let alone a $100,000 power cable - they exist!), and I am pretty sure nobody on ASR would own one of those. And even if they did, they would probably be of the type of persuasion where measurements are ignored and won't send it to Amir. The result is sampling bias - affordable products get tested, expensive products don't.

So it might seem as if GR Research was unfairly targeted when there are bigger fish to fry, but unless Musk or Bezos is on ASR and don't mind throwing a lazy $100k Amir's way, those expensive power cords won't get tested.

I would be the first to defend Danny IF HE PRODUCED MEASUREMENTS AND BLIND LISTENING TESTS SHOWING HIS PRODUCTS WORK (well, probably not the first because some here on ASR are pretty quick). But until then he should not be defended.

 

[voodooless]

You can pay thousands for a cable. It won't change anything except 2 bank accounts. One with less and one with more money on it.
An active device is not the same as a power cable though.

Nevermind that we don’t need $ 1400 for a good DAC. You can buy an $ 80 DAC that way is better than anything PS Audio has to offer. Way less than one of those power cables.

 

[muslhead]

What proof do you need? The average payout for youtube is something around $5 per 1000 views. Even if we give Danny a highly-improbable $10/1000 he needs 40K views to offset the loss of one sale of his cables - and he's probably not even netting $5/1000. He's got about 70K subscribers and his vids average something around 30-50K views. It doesn't look like the clicks generated from these occasional threads here ever balloon his views above those norms. He's certainly not getting an extra 10K views from us or anything like that. I doubt he gets more than a couple hundred views out of any of these fun threads. And if even a handful of potential customers of his happen to find these threads and are "inspired" to NOT buy his stuff he's quickly moved well into the negative in terms of any financial benefit to him...

The fact is, Danny is the only one who has anything to lose by engaging in this. Amir isn't selling anything and I'm not even sure if his channel is monetized. Danny doesn't stand to gain more than a few dollars from clicks generated by these threads and I really doubt anyone is reading a thread like this and then dropping $400 on a set of interconnect cables just to spite Amir. Otoh I can certainly see a person who might be considering buying some of those cables thinking "hmmm maybe that's what my system needs" but reading this thread and deciding "nah maybe not." And if that happens even once per thread it basically destroys the benefit of 50K (or more) video views for him.

LOL
Thanks. Exactly as expected. Conjecture and opinion.
No proof necessary when it fits the site narrative,
Everything you wrote is non factual. its nothing but guesses and assumptions
They are likely (my opinion) good and probably close guess, but they are not factual

 

[antcollinet]

LOL
Thanks. Exactly as expected. Conjecture and opinion.
No proof necessary when it fits the site narrative,
Everything you wrote is non factual. its nothing but guesses and assumptions
They are likely (my opinion) good and probably close guess, but they are not factual

It's valid reasoning. Come up with alternate reasoning - or the facts you think counter the reasoning, and we can have a discussion.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

LOL
Thanks. Exactly as expected. Conjecture and opinion.
No proof necessary when it fits the site narrative,
Everything you wrote is non factual. its nothing but guesses and assumptions
They are likely (my opinion) good and probably close guess, but they are not factual

what are you talking about?

Do you feel that the average youtube payout is substantially more than $5 per 1000 views? Just google youtube payouts...I mean it's not like we're talking about some social media influencer here. This is a pretty small niche channel...you figure Danny is making money like channels that have millions of subscribers? And our only specific concern here is the benefit he might gain from extra clicks he gets from these threads right? Most of these threads have a few dozen individuals posting in them and maybe a few thousand views. So even if every one of those views equaled a view of his vid we're talking a few thousand views at the absolute maximum - which of course is ridiculous because the thread views in no way equals video views (hell, I probably account for a few hundred thread views myself alone and I never watch the vids at all! lol).

 

[Lukino]

no thick thick rope needs to be wound.... Amir thanks.