GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]

[Tassin]

So why is he wasting his time responding to this?

He keeps his followers on his side. This is just a tactic that works for some people: keep repeating the same false claim. Do this long enough and people start believing it. Certain politicians do it, people with bad intentions do it, the pharmaceutical and food industries do it. It's very simple and effective; just keep lying.

 

[ocinn]

Anyone who has any interest in one of his products and does some basic research online will come across ASR and the many threads about cables and GR Research. Anyone who does no research and purchases, well that is on them and I have little sympathy.

There is enough content on ASR to do the job of informing potential customers. All we’re doing now by engaging him is driving traffic to his channel and website. Yes, most will look out of curiosity and move on but a small few will get sucked in.

Sometimes saying nothing has the biggest impact.

The YouTube revenue to his channel that this site is generating pales in comparison to the loss of sales (profit) that Amir’s objective coverage/debunking ensures for those questioning a purchase.

YouTube is ~$1/1000 views. I doubt his coverage in this forum alone has generated him more than $10.

Besides the point, AdBlockers like uBlock Origin are free and guarantee zero revenue from YouTube views to the creator. So you can feel secure watching his videos without putting pennies in his wallet.

Danny would not be going out of his way to combat this stuff if he was not already suffering from drops in revenue due to this forums actions.

 

[thecheapseats]

this is a consumer issue - not a duel of personalities... it demands a response because the product being discussed is useless sh!t dressed-up as a technical solution which under the right adverse conditions, may burn your f*cking house down...

 

[TonyJZX]

this is a consumer issue - not a duel of personalities... it demands a response because the product being discussed is useless sh!t dressed-up as a technical solution which under the right adverse conditions, may burn your f*cking house down...

yeah i find it expressly draws into stuff that you dont want to talk about here

someones' unsubstantiated beliefs do not equal someone elses repeatable scientific tests

its clear that if you sell a $400 cable that has 'incredible benefits' then you need to show incredible proof that your product works

has the vendor shown that?

further if you want to defend that product then would you put your money where your mouth is and buy said product and show us the proof?

i again call tolerance of these kinds of claims 'tolerance of the intolerable' and I feel that some people here seem to think that because some companies and their employees derive income from selling such products as 'fair play' since detractors are 'denigrating' a company

you might compare this to MQA

that shouldnt matter at all... facts are fact regardless of the economics of the situation

this cable seller even said that he believed that cables have to be 'raised off the floor', another fun discussion in the past... i cant really even continue with that kind of nonsense for 40 mins

 

[Svensson]

I have never been to a court hearing, tribunal or similar where a judge, panel or jury has been convinced by hearsay or personal opinion when there is evidence to the contrary. The evidence can be openly scrutinized and would need to be sufficiently flawed to be set aside.

 

[F1308]

Time to see ASRA on any product before buying.

AudioScienceReviewApproved

 

[TonyJZX]

this product also lends itself to the stark judgement of data

like i can fully understand how things like cars, speakers and amps can fall under the spell of... 'mystique' or the allure of 'character'

i have driven cars that were objectively terrible cars but they drove so nice! you guys can obviously fall under the spell of a good amp or a pleasant set of speakers

but a cable? in a pinch I have powered an amp with the IEC cable that came with a $10 electric kettle from your kmart walmart

an so how would i justify a $400 iec cable?

 

[napfkuchen]

must have used that super grade power cable for the washing machine
View attachment 291211

Typical problem with these machines, the center image falls apart under load. It's obvious that top loader designs are better for music reproduction:

 

[antcollinet]

but a cable? in a pinch I have powered an amp with the IEC cable that came with a $10 electric kettle from your kmart walmart

in a pinch? The vast majority of equipment in the world, including most audio kit, is powered with similar cables. They are fine.

 

[Lieglein]

Sorry, but to me, this is just embarrassingly childish back and forths by grown men who should know better.

Audio science and high fidelity reproduction doesn't need this tribalism. It serves no useful agenda other than marginalising an already fringe pursuit.

This is correct. It's harsh and not how I'd say it. But it is correct.
It is always important to keep souvereignty.

 

[thecheapseats]

yeah i find it expressly draws into stuff that you dont want to talk about here
<snip> its clear that if you sell a $400 cable that has 'incredible benefits' then you need to show incredible proof that your product works
<snip> further if you want to defend that product then would you put your money where your mouth is and buy said product and show us the proof?
<snip> you might compare this to MQA

who is the "you" you repeatedly refer to above?... pretty damn sure it ain't me... perhaps you're confused...

 

[moosso]

I think it's a bit unfair to sneer at the man.

• The cable is not too expensive
• It does have slightly better performance
• It may work for less well designed amp and noisy environment (if "cable interference" is true as the man said)
  • for example, usb isolator improve 28dB THD when using topping D10s with Intel NUC, if you use state of art DAC with less noisy USB port I think you can't observe any difference

Meanwhile, amir is happy to recommend a $1499 DAC (SINAD 120) that objectively has no audible difference to a $139 DAC (SINAD 118).
Why not do a null test and claim the $1499 DAC doesn't improve sound quality at all?

I would like to see more objective measurement result and less "show" like this.

 

[thecheapseats]

I think it's a bit unfair to sneer at the man.

• The cable is not too expensive

ok - that's funny...

 

[solderdude]

I think it's a bit unfair to sneer at the man.

I think it is equally unfair for the man to sneer at Amir.

Meanwhile, amir is happy to recommend a $1499 DAC (SINAD 120) that objectively has no audible difference to a $139 DAC (SINAD 118).

One has completely different connectivity/functionality. Both are technically good enough to be recommended.

A mains cable is a mains cable. It has the same function and one does NOT do a better job than the other. The expensive one, in this case, is having some mechanical undesirable aspects a cheapy does not have. Why spend so much more on a mains cable ?

I would like to see more objective measurement result and less "show" like this.

I agree with that, it should be noted that the 'show' is being put on by 'the man' who does not supply any relevant measurements and 'the measurements' are already present.
I would agree that no EMC measurements have been made though.

 

[Lieglein]

Why not do a null test and claim the $1499 DAC doesn't improve sound quality at all?

It's ot only about soundquality. What are the reasons to buy a product over another is not only soundquality.

 

[moosso]

ok - that's funny...

What about an $1499 DAC? What do you pay for the extra $1360?

I think it is equally unfair for the man to sneer at Amir.

Well Amir hurt his business while the man doesn't hurt Amir's.

The reason people in other (less science) forum refuse to believe ASR and measurements because something doesn't make sense.
The measurement data itself is objective but the conclusion is subjective and the logic doesn't stand well.

• The higher SINAD the better even it's not audible at all and might cost you more than $1000
• Frequency response from GRAS is everything but FR from BK5128 and in-ear mics should be ignored
• Harman is the gold standard every people love, while DCA Expanse add a mid bass bump to compensate for it's very low distortion, (I thought low distortion sound better? why compensate it?) and Amir said he prefer the mid bass bump most time.

I'm not trying to criticize ASR or Amir but I think keep it professional will help more audiophiles start to looking measurements and understand them.

 

[muslhead]

The YouTube revenue to his channel that this site is generating pales in comparison to the loss of sales (profit) that Amir’s objective coverage/debunking ensures for those questioning a purchase.

Can you provide proof or is this just conjecture and opinion?

 

[solderdude]

Well Amir hurt his business while the man doesn't hurt Amir's.

Yes, that was exactly my point (and I believe John's as well).

The measurement data itself is objective but the conclusion is subjective and the logic doesn't stand well.

In what aspect do you think Amir's conclusion is 'subjective' and if peoples feelings are hurt by this would Amir be to blame ?

• The higher SINAD the better even it's not audible at all and might cost you more than $1000
• Frequency response from GRAS is everything but FR from BK5128 and in-ear mics should be ignored
• Harman is the gold standard every people love, while DCA Expanse add a mid bass bump to compensate for it's very low distortion, (I tought low distortion sound better? why compensate it?) and Amir said he perfer the mid bass bump most time.

These don't belong in this thread.

No one said the higher the SINAD the better. What Amir does state is that higher SINAD equals higher signal fidelity.

GRAS is an official standard and thus repeatable. BK5128 is another standard and also repeatable and will be accepted when more is known about it.
In-ear mics should be ignored as: A: they are not repeatable, one's ears do not adhere to a standard, placement of the mic and compensation for it are nuisance variables.
They could have some value for the individual using the mics...

The midbass hump is a consequence of the tuning (pad) and adds some 'punch'. It really does not matter what someone thinks is the reasoning behind that. Add too much and the bass becomes 'muddy'.
Preference... the Harman target was built on it and seems to suit the majority of listeners. There is a minority prefering something else.

 

[Mart68]

I think it's a bit unfair to sneer at the man.

• The cable is not too expensive

$450 vs exactly the same thing (except with safety certification) that's supplied with equipment for free? I'd say it's $450 too expensive.

Literally money for old rope (well maybe new rope).

 

[thecheapseats]

What about an $1499 DAC? What do you pay for the extra $1360?

your comments become more absurd each time you post...