Got the Green Light from the Boss (the Wife): Please Help Me Pick Gear for My Home Theater and Music Room!

[c.siedlecki]

First and foremost, I’ve been a long-time supporter of Audio Science Review, avidly reading the forums and especially appreciating Amir's work. After pretty much five years of saving I am finally ready to building my first proper hi-fi system, and there’s no one I trust more for advice, so I’m turning to the community for guidance before I invest my hard-earned money.

I have two rooms where I would like to upgrade my music equipment and finally start to truly enjoy music. I want to keep things "reasonable”, lets let’s say under $10,000 for the total project. I can go a little over if it’s worth it, and I’m open to adding on overtime, but ideally, I’d like to stick within that budget. I also have young kids, so I can’t dip into their college funds!

Here’s my setup:

1. Upstairs living room(~400 square feet):
   • It will serve as a home theater space and for casual background music while dining and or doing living room stuff.
   • The decor calls for a “modern” aesthetic, preferably no wood veneer. I kid of fancy white veneer, not sure how well it will hold to my kids fingers...
   • The living room is shared with the kitchen, so the wife-approval factor is important.
   • I’m thinking of starting with a 2.1 channel system and eventually expanding to 5.1.2 once the kids are a little older.
2. Downstairs space(~250 square feet):
   • This is my more relaxed, dedicated music space for hi-fi listening and chilling.
   • I want to use bookshelf speakers and experiment with speaker positioning and room treatments.
   • I plan on tinkering with music and may try my hand at building speakers and electronics in the future.
   • The goal is to inspire my whole family to really enjoy music and my kids to tinker with electronics
   • I’d prefer separate components here, so no integrated gear.
   • I will be doing some A\B testing

Some notes about my preferences:

• I came to conclusion that I don’t believe in analog, so just for sonic performance I’m not interested in vinyl or tube gear.
• My music tastes are diverse, though I’ve started leaning towards more chill genres as I get older.
• I base decisions on scientific scrutiny but understand that music is also about emotion and enjoyment and visual cues.
• I like to make decisions once, and stick to them. Unless I am unhappy with the performance or my life circumstances change, I plan on keeping the system for the long haul !

Current setup:

• Klipsch floor RP-260F speakers, and RP-450C center channel powered by outdated Yamaha RX-V465 receiver (The speakers are kind meee but I believe it’s due the poor receiver, but I am very happy with center channel so I will most likely keep it).
• Vandersteen Model 3 with two PS Audio 100 mono-blocs and a Topping E50 DAC (This a gear I have inherited, and really got me into hi-fi but its just take too much space, and I would like to upgrade it to something better).
• Emotiva B1+ with X5 8 sub (which I enjoy quite a bit as a desktop gear, and I love the value factor) powered by AIYIMA D05 Bluetooth 5.0 Power Amplifier.

---

​

Here are the options I’m considering for each room, but I am open to your feedback:

Home Theater (Upstairs)

• Option A:
  • Revel Performa3 F206 – $2,695 (or KEF R3 Meta with Stands)
  • Onkyo TX-RZ50 – $999
  • SVS SB-1000 Pro – $699
  • Total: $4,393
• Option B:
  • Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-8000F II – $1,200 (or KEF Q750 – $1,500)
  • Onkyo TX-RZ50 – $999
  • SVS SB-1000 Pro – $699
  • Total: $2,898 (money leftover I would have for a new TV )

Music Room (Downstairs)

• Option A:
  • Topping E50 DAC - Free
  • MoFi SourcePoint 8 Bookshelf Loudspeaker – $1,999
  • GR Research Upgrade Kit? – $800 (upgrade down the line)
  • Schiit Vidar II – $800 (open to alternatives)
  • Rythmik Audio F12SE – $1,259
  • Total: $4,058
• Option B:
  • Topping E50 DAC - Free
  • KEF R3 Meta – $2,200 (I’m really into KEF speakers)
  • Schiit Vidar II – $800
  • Rythmik Audio F12SE – $1,259
  • Total: $4,259

Other tempting options (but hard to justify the price/value ratio):

• Børresen X2 – $8,800 (I was extremely impressive with the performance of these bookshelf speakers at AXPONA 2024)
• Børresen X1 – $5,500 (Never listened to them and they are only 50 watts)
• RME ADI-2 DAC FS – $1,299
• miniDSP Flex HTx – $1,000
• MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 888 – $5,000
• KEF R11 Meta – $6,500
• NAD C298 - $2400
• Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier – $3,500
• McIntosh MC152 Power Amplifier (solid-state) – $5,500
• HiFi Rose RA280 – $2,995 (though it’s integrated but maybe worth upgrading)
• Caladan Open Baffle - $3000
• Revel M126Be - $4400
• Parasound 21+ Stereo Power Amplifier (is it better than Schiit Vidar II ?)
• Parasound 23+ Stereo Power Amplifier - $1900
• Rotel RB-1582 MkII - $2199
• PS Audio Stellar S300 - $2,299

 

[ryanmh1]

Replace the Onkyo upstairs with a Denon so that you can get Dynamic EQ since this is a background listening system. Dirac has a big shortcoming here. Then get a Pioneer LX805 (RZ50 twin) for the downstairs setup and use Dirac there where presumably you'll usually have reasonable volume levels. Speaker choices are all excellent. But I do think the wide directivity of the Revel is a good idea for background music. I would even consider something like the KEF Q950 here as a top choice to save a few bucks, and avoid vertical off axis frequency issues since it will be used out of the sweet spot regularly. Klipsch is awesome for the HT component, though, and saves some money. Subwoofer is weak, but could be a WAF issue. If you can get away with it, consider a Klipsch RP-1400SW or RP-1200SW or something from that line if you can find the half off deal. Like this: https://www.adorama.com/kp1400sw.html?sdtid=17727555&emailprice=t. Mega 20Hz numbers on that thing.

Downstairs are all great. See Pioneer suggestion to get Dirac and a great amp all in one. But forget the extra money for a speaker "upgrade kit". Now, if you really want to blow your mind, burn the budget to the ground and get a pair of Polk L800s. Refurbs and you won't burn it that bad. Now that's a speaker if you're a soundstage and imaging nut. They are magic but they are HUGE. See if you can sell them upstairs as a "conversation piece". But you've got good speaker taste already on the bookshelfs. Can't go wrong on anything you've mentioned.

 

[Cbdb2]

Spend 80% of your money on speakers. Stay away from anything GRresearch (ZeRo research) and Psaudio (BSaudio) do. You can buy great DACs for $200 (never mind, you have one) and great stereo amps fir $300 or 400. AVR receivers will cost more because of all the things they do but $1000 should be close. You than have $600 for sources like a streamer etc. and use whats left for the room treatment. That leaves you at $8k for the things that make the biggest difference, speakers. I would also spend most of that money on the mains and not the subs. As in mains that go lower and smaller subs.

 

[GXAlan]

First sell everything you can. I like TMR Audio but you will get more from eBay if you are patient.

You need to seriously ask yourself how often you need two systems. Instead of two good systems, what about one spectacular system?

 

[kemmler3D]

I'm going to quickly plug the LS60 for the upstairs as you mention you like KEF, they come in nice white finishes, and (if bought on sale) they are within your budget for that room, and you can possibly forgo the sub with them. The look is very modern, but love-it-or-hate-it. I like them and so does my wife (who is picky about decor) so they work really well in my upstairs living room - dining room situation.

If I had to pick one of the upstairs options as presented I would go with A.

Both of the downstairs options look good to me but I might push back on the Vidar option a bit - it looks cool but you can get similar wattage and noise / distortion for maybe half the money from Fosi units, and you can potentially find Hypex gear around the same price / watt.

Oh and welcome to ASR!

 

[Cbdb2]

It would also help to know what part if the world your in.

 

[Cbdb2]

These guys often have sales on Revels and KEF if you can wait.

Music Direct - Search Results

www.musicdirect.com

Or save even more, buy used if you can audition them.

KEF R3 meta

KEF R3 in walnut. Well reviewed speaker that measures up accurately. Includes original box and packaging. I’m always trying out gear and would buy these again without question. They do a super job with imaging and revealing detail on recordings especially at this price.

www.usaudiomart.com

 

[ryanmh1]

Spend 80% of your money on speakers. Stay away from anything GRresearch (ZeRo research) and Psaudio (BSaudio) do. You can buy great DACs for $200 (never mind, you have one) and great stereo amps fir $300 or 400. AVR receivers will cost more because of all the things they do but $1000 should be close. You than have $600 for sources like a streamer etc. and use whats left for the room treatment. That leaves you at $8k for the things that make the biggest difference, speakers. I would also spend most of that money on the mains and not the subs. As in mains that go lower and smaller subs.

You mean like room correction, which will make the biggest difference imaginable? And which has the streamer built right into it? And good speakers do not need to cost that much money. He's clearly done his homework there. Plus, the receiver will ensure proper integration of the subwoofer and the main speakers. And, for a movie system, the subwoofer is mandatory, and the bigger the better. I suspect the small sub is probably a WAF issue. There is no such thing as a subwoofer that is too big. And, once you're using good room correction, the choice of speakers is not quite as important except for dispersion characteristics. His choices for KEF are very good here for something that will be used for background. The only thing I would not do is put KEF upstairs and downstairs. KEF makes a ton of sense upstairs, which opens up options downstairs.

This is probably one of the better planned twin setups asked about! I personally think the room correction everywhere is preferable though, and I *really* like Audyssey Dynamic EQ for background or low-level systems so you don't lose all the bass. Those are very, very minor points.

 

[Cbdb2]

There is no such thing as a subwoofer that is too big

Thats ridiculous. And for stereo if your mains go low enough you don't need a sub.

 

[ryanmh1]

Thats ridiculous. And for stereo if your mains go low enough you don't need a sub.

For music, yes. For home theater, no. Running 6db or more hot at 15Hz is amazing. And expensive. And probably not necessary here where there's not even surround. Still, OP would do well to increase woofage to max WAF limit. Sub is his weakest link.

 

[c.siedlecki]

It would also help to know what part if the world your in.

I live in the Chicago suburbs, where the pizza is deep, the winters are deeper, and the only thing faster than the wind is how quickly we judge your sports team loyalty

 

[GD Fan]

Not enough guitars listed among these options. No music room is complete without an axe or two!

 

[c.siedlecki]

Spend 80% of your money on speakers. Stay away from anything GRresearch (ZeRo research) and Psaudio (BSaudio) do. You can buy great DACs for $200 (never mind, you have one) and great stereo amps fir $300 or 400. AVR receivers will cost more because of all the things they do but $1000 should be close. You than have $600 for sources like a streamer etc. and use whats left for the room treatment. That leaves you at $8k for the things that make the biggest difference, speakers. I would also spend most of that money on the mains and not the subs. As in mains that go lower and smaller subs.

I was looking into spending majority of the money on the speakers, that is why I have picked Schiit Vidar II and RZ50 for power amplifiers. Upstairs I can really move speakers 3 feet into the living room, my kid would make a castle out of them, and for the downstairs I was thinking about bookshelf and they really need a sub.

 

[xaviescacs]

This is boring and predictable, but my advice for room 2 to maximize performance/price ratio is to go active with genelec or neumann and a source that allows EQ and some DSP, like the RME or a computer + DAC...

 

[BJL]

I would suggest using the Revel Performa3 F206 in the music room and skip the sub. If you use Dirac or similar, they easily EQ to about 30 Hz, unless you are listening to pipe organ music, that is more than sufficient. I have the F206 speakers and have them set full range. Use the Rythmik sub in the the HT room instead of the SVS. I have the F12SE and when I ran Dirac it set the range starting at 15 Hz, but I only use it for the LFE channel because the Revel speakers provide full range, as far as I am concerned.

 

[dualazmak]

This is boring and predictable, but my advice for room 2 to maximize performance/price ratio is to go active with genelec or neumann and a source that allows EQ and some DSP, like the RME or a computer + DAC...

Fully agree with you, this is exactly the same as what I would like to suggest by my post I was just writing!
For OP @c.siedlecki's possible interest and reference, please refer to my latest setup of DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio setup in my post here #931 on my project thread.

If you use Dirac or similar, they easily EQ to about 30 Hz, unless you are listening to pipe organ music, that is more than sufficient.

Sorry, but generally speaking, I, at least myself, do not agree with your point since I love pipe organ music as well as some smooth jazz and jazz piano trio music having nice bass sound below 30 Hz as I shared in these posts; I do not know what would be OP @c.siedlecki's stance and music preference in this regard, though...
- A nice smooth-jazz album for bass (low Fq) and higher Fq tonality check and tuning: #63(remote thread)

- Excellent Recording Quality Music Albums/Tracks for Subjective (and Possibly Objective) Test/Check/Tuning of Multichannel Multi-Driver Multi-Way Multi-Amplifier Time-Aligned Active Stereo Audio System and Room Acoustics; at least a Portion and/or One Track being Analyzed by Color Spectrum of Adobe Audition in Common Parameters: [Part-08] (Smooth?) Jazz Trio: #640, [Part-09] Organ Music: #641

- Reproduction and listening/hearing/feeling sensations to 16 Hz (organ) sound with my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio system having big-heavy active L&R sub-woofers: #782

Furthermore, I would like to strongly recommend OP @c.siedlecki to prepare/establish your own consistent "audio reference/sampler music playlist", to be used throughout your audio exploration journey, consists of various (your preferred) music genres in excellent recording quality, hopefully having some measurement data (like Fq-Gain spectrum) of each of the playlist tracks. Just for example, you can find my "audio sampler reference/sampler music playlist" consists of 60 tracks as follows;
- Updated, the latest, Audio Sampler Playlist as of October 20, 2022: #670
The dedicated thread on this;
An Attempt Sharing Reference Quality Music Playlist: at least a portion and/or whole track being analyzed by 3D color spectrum of Adobe Audition

 

[JSmith]

SVS SB-1000 Pro

Take a look at Tonewinner subwoofers.


JSmith

 

[c.siedlecki]

Replace the Onkyo upstairs with a Denon so that you can get Dynamic EQ since this is a background listening system. Dirac has a big shortcoming here. Then get a Pioneer LX805 (RZ50 twin) for the downstairs setup and use Dirac there where presumably you'll usually have reasonable volume levels. Speaker choices are all excellent. But I do think the wide directivity of the Revel is a good idea for background music. I would even consider something like the KEF Q950 here as a top choice to save a few bucks, and avoid vertical off axis frequency issues since it will be used out of the sweet spot regularly. Klipsch is awesome for the HT component, though, and saves some money. Subwoofer is weak, but could be a WAF issue. If you can get away with it, consider a Klipsch RP-1400SW or RP-1200SW or something from that line if you can find the half off deal. Like this: https://www.adorama.com/kp1400sw.html?sdtid=17727555&emailprice=t. Mega 20Hz numbers on that thing.

Downstairs are all great. Seen Pioneer suggestion to get Dirac and a great amp all in one. But forget the extra money for a speaker "upgrade kit". Now, if you really want to blow your mind, burn the budget to the ground and get a pair of Polk L800s. Refurbs and you won't burn it that bad. Now that's a speaker if you're a soundstage and imaging nut. They are magic but they are HUGE. See if you can sell them upstairs as a "conversation piece". But you've got good speaker taste already on the bookshelfs. Can't go wrong on anything you've mentioned.

Thank you for the notion about Dynamic EQ, I have heard about it but I did not take it consideration

First and foremost, I’ve been a long-time supporter of Audio Science Review, avidly reading the forums and especially appreciating Amir's work. After pretty much five years of saving I am finally ready to building my first proper hi-fi system, and there’s no one I trust more for advice, so I’m turning to the community for guidance before I invest my hard-earned money.

I have two rooms where I would like to upgrade my music equipment and finally start to truly enjoy music. I want to keep things "reasonable”, lets let’s say under $10,000 for the total project. I can go a little over if it’s worth it, and I’m open to adding on overtime, but ideally, I’d like to stick within that budget. I also have young kids, so I can’t dip into their college funds!

Here’s my setup:

1. Upstairs living room(~400 square feet):
   • It will serve as a home theater space and for casual background music while dining and or doing living room stuff.
   • The decor calls for a “modern” aesthetic, preferably no wood veneer. I kid of fancy white veneer, not sure how well it will hold to my kids fingers...
   • The living room is shared with the kitchen, so the wife-approval factor is important.
   • I’m thinking of starting with a 2.1 channel system and eventually expanding to 5.1.2 once the kids are a little older.
2. Downstairs space(~250 square feet):
   • This is my more relaxed, dedicated music space for hi-fi listening and chilling.
   • I want to use bookshelf speakers and experiment with speaker positioning and room treatments.
   • I plan on tinkering with music and may try my hand at building speakers and electronics in the future.
   • The goal is to inspire my whole family to really enjoy music and my kids to tinker with electronics
   • I’d prefer separate components here, so no integrated gear.
   • I will be doing some A\B testing

Some notes about my preferences:

• I came to conclusion that I don’t believe in analog, so just for sonic performance I’m not interested in vinyl or tube gear.
• My music tastes are diverse, though I’ve started leaning towards more chill genres as I get older.
• I base decisions on scientific scrutiny but understand that music is also about emotion and enjoyment and visual cues.
• I like to make decisions once, and stick to them. Unless I am unhappy with the performance or my life circumstances change, I plan on keeping the system for the long haul !

Current setup:

• Klipsch floor RP-260F speakers, and RP-450C center channel powered by outdated Yamaha RX-V465 receiver (The speakers are kind meee but I believe it’s due the poor receiver, but I am very happy with center channel so I will most likely keep it).
• Vandersteen Model 3 with two PS Audio 100 mono-blocs and a Topping E50 DAC (This a gear I have inherited, and really got me into hi-fi but its just take too much space, and I would like to upgrade it to something better).
• Emotiva B1+ with X5 8 sub (which I enjoy quite a bit as a desktop gear, and I love the value factor) powered by AIYIMA D05 Bluetooth 5.0 Power Amplifier.

​

---

Here are the options I’m considering for each room, but I am open to your feedback:

Home Theater (Upstairs)

• Option A:
  • Revel Performa3 F206 – $2,695 (or KEF R3 Meta with Stands)
  • Onkyo TX-RZ50 – $999
  • SVS SB-1000 Pro – $699
  • Total: $4,393
• Option B:
  • Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-8000F II – $1,200 (or KEF Q750 – $1,500)
  • Onkyo TX-RZ50 – $999
  • SVS SB-1000 Pro – $699
  • Total: $2,898 (money leftover I would have for a new TV )

Music Room (Downstairs)

• Option A:
  • Topping E50 DAC - Free
  • MoFi SourcePoint 8 Bookshelf Loudspeaker – $1,999
  • GR Research Upgrade Kit? – $800 (upgrade down the line)
  • Schiit Vidar II – $800 (open to alternatives)
  • Rythmik Audio F12SE – $1,259
  • Total: $4,058
• Option B:
  • Topping E50 DAC - Free
  • KEF R3 Meta – $2,200 (I’m really into KEF speakers)
  • Schiit Vidar II – $800
  • Rythmik Audio F12SE – $1,259
  • Total: $4,259

Other tempting options (but hard to justify the price/value ratio):

• Børresen X2 – $8,800 (I was extremely impressive with the performance of these bookshelf speakers at AXPONA 2024)
• Børresen X1 – $5,500 (Never listened to them and they are only 50 watts)
• RME ADI-2 DAC FS – $1,299
• miniDSP Flex HTx – $1,000
• MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 888 – $5,000
• KEF R11 Meta – $6,500
• NAD C298 - $2400
• Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier – $3,500
• McIntosh MC152 Power Amplifier (solid-state) – $5,500
• HiFi Rose RA280 – $2,995 (though it’s integrated but maybe worth upgrading)
• Caladan Open Baffle - $3000
• Revel M126Be - $4400
• Parasound 21+ Stereo Power Amplifier (is it better than Schiit Vidar II ?)
• Parasound 23+ Stereo Power Amplifier - $1900
• Rotel RB-1582 MkII - $2199
• PS Audio Stellar S300 - $2,299

So here it is, a revised version based on your feedback. I greatly appreciate your support, and if anyone is in the Chicago area, I'd love to buy you a coffee !

I wasn’t quite sure this would be possible, but thanks to your suggestions, both systems are going to be superior and still within my budget compared to my original selections.

For the upstairs setup, I will satisfy my craving for KEF speakers with their excellent aesthetics and wide directivity. Switching to the Denon AV will significantly improve low-volume compensation and enhance the overall listening experience. The subwoofer, as many of you correctly pointed out, was the weak link, so I’ve decided on the Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-1400SW 14" 1000W High Excursion Subwoofer. At $699, it's a steal, and I will probably order it right away. I will deal with my wife and placement of the sub in the living room later

For the Music Room, I have opted for the miniDSP Flex Eight over active speakers, allowing me to keep everything separate. This choice gives me not only a preamp, a grear DAC but also flexibility for subwoofer or multi-way speaker tuning. Plus, I can always add a Dirac Live license if needed. I’m sticking with the MoFi SourcePoint 8 Bookshelf Speakers, especially for the $1,499 price tag at music direct its also a steal. As for amplification, I found Fosi Audio V3 Mono Block Amplifiers for a quarter of the cost of the Schiit Vidar II. I just hope they can handle the task with the bookshelf speakers. Finally, with all the savings, I can spring for two Rhythmic Audio F12SE subs, and since it’s a music room, I will have more freedom for their placement and tuning.

Home Theater (Upstairs):

• Denon AVR-X2800H – $1,199
• KEF Q950 – $2,199.98
• Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-1400SW 14" 1000W High Excursion Subwoofer – $699

Total: $4,097

Music Room (Downstairs):

• miniDSP Flex Eight – $549
• MoFi SourcePoint 8 Bookshelf Loudspeaker – $1,499
• Fosi Audio V3 Mono Power Amplifiers – $218 (Hope they can perform …)
• Rythmik Audio F12SE Subwoofer – $1,259
• Rythmik Audio F12SE Subwoofer – $1,259

Total: $4,784"

If you have any additional comments, please let me know.
Other than the sub, I am still ahead couple weeks before ordering anything.
I will first start HM, and once that is all done move to a Music Room.

 

[gondorff]

[…] boring and predictable, but my advice […] is to go active with genelec or neumann and […]

As an online audio discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Neumann or Genelec approaches 1.

Source


I think we need a new name for the adapted law around here. Any suggestions?

 

[Timcognito]

FYI This hits in October, has Dirac DSP and can manage two subs when you are ready to add another. I am eyeing it as an up grade myself. Also, the RZ50 is on sale for $800 in couple of places

Onkyo TX-RZ30

New AVR coming.. https://www.ravepubs.com/onkyo-details-new-9-2-channel-tx-rz30-av-receiver-could-be-used-as-av-processor-for-rooms-too/

www.audiosciencereview.com