• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Got new tv with EARC, need help deciding AVR with some restrictions.

Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
#1
Hi, I need help deciding which AVR to buy. Ive got a newish tv with Earc, which id like, to use.

I was an old school 2 channel guy, and over the last couple of decades I collected some nice speakers and amps. They were in storage for some time, but I recently decided to pull some of them out and set up a HT mixing my old stuff withew stuff to come up with a 7.2.4 system.

My front LR are some electrostatics that require a hefty amp, so I've got a very strong old school 200w amp for them. My back LR are hard to drive so I've got another matching amp for them. My center is a 4 ohm Emotiva C2 driven by AVR, and my side LR are also 4 ohms driven by AVR.

The .2 part are 2 HSU 15 inch subs. The .4 part is undecided other than the fact that they will be in ceiling.

I'm a bit hard of hearing so I drive the system a little harder than some do. My room is 15.5' by 25.5' and is mixed use.

So, I guess I will get a Denon X series, but which one, considering my center and side LR are 4 ohm?

I've got a 10% coupon to Best Buy, which is nice. They sell the X3700H and the X4700H, but not the X6700H. I could stretch for the X6700 and lose the 10%, but would the extra power matter for the 4 ohm speakers I've got?

Also I understand there is an outstanding issue with the mix down of the X4700H that may be corrected in the future, and if I get the X6700 i will have to ensure the serial number is greater than 860.

Which one would you pick and why? I'm new to much of this and really appreciate any guidance you give.

Thanks, Ron
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #2
I've poured over hundreds old posts in the reviews of these 3 AVR's yet have been unable to decide. Perhaps my questions aren't right. I can hardly believe that my questions are totally new... Any input is appreciated.

Ron
 
Last edited:
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #3
Should I go for power with the 6700 or will be enough considering the 3 4 ohm speakers I'm driving with the AVR plus the amps for the back LR speakers can't be turned off, so that factors in somehow..





?
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #4
Hmmm, so then I'm wondering if the 3700 releases the FLR preamp channels to be used to extend the number of outputs like the 4700 and 6700 do. That would be a powerful argument for the 4700 at least, especially if I want 7.2.4. Ive just got that nagging feeling that these amps just don't have enough power.
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #6
Why do you care about 8k and lossless audio from a tv?
I want to complete the signal path. I will pass the signal from the TV, where I pick up streaming video, through earc to the AVR. Optical and even coax won't pass nearly the same amount of data as the earc. I've seen people complaining that these Denon sets won't pass through 1440p etc. What im trying to avoid is not being able to decode all the different sound scenarios like atmos etc. I live in a rural area where it is hard to get blu ray discs ( I dont even own a player), but high speed internet is available. I realise content is lacking, but it will improve in the coming years. Im a newb when it comes to these things but have been pouring over this site and others trying to educate myself, but its a bit of info overload I'm afraid.

Also I dont want to buy an AVR that won't cope with my existing setup, which for me is impossible to replace. I'm afraid if I get the 3700 it won't drive the 4 ohm speakers ive got and the ones I wIll add to sufficient levels to match my other equipment, for the year it will take me to afford a nice 9 channel amp. If I were to go the 6700 route, I might find the same thing, but then it would take even longer to recover...
 

Chrispy

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
469
Likes
299
Location
PNW
#7
You have a tv/apps that handles lossless audio? Where will it go from here? What streaming service offers lossless audio codec? I live in the boonies myself and until we recently had an upgrade over dsl 4k streaming wasn't even possible. 1440 isn't a normal resolution could be why. The 3700 has pre-outs if you need to up the amp game....but I'd try without first.
 

Dj7675

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
766
Likes
965
#8
Hi, I need help deciding which AVR to buy. Ive got a newish tv with Earc, which id like, to use.

I was an old school 2 channel guy, and over the last couple of decades I collected some nice speakers and amps. They were in storage for some time, but I recently decided to pull some of them out and set up a HT mixing my old stuff withew stuff to come up with a 7.2.4 system.

My front LR are some electrostatics that require a hefty amp, so I've got a very strong old school 200w amp for them. My back LR are hard to drive so I've got another matching amp for them. My center is a 4 ohm Emotiva C2 driven by AVR, and my side LR are also 4 ohms driven by AVR.

The .2 part are 2 HSU 15 inch subs. The .4 part is undecided other than the fact that they will be in ceiling.

I'm a bit hard of hearing so I drive the system a little harder than some do. My room is 15.5' by 25.5' and is mixed use.

So, I guess I will get a Denon X series, but which one, considering my center and side LR are 4 ohm?

I've got a 10% coupon to Best Buy, which is nice. They sell the X3700H and the X4700H, but not the X6700H. I could stretch for the X6700 and lose the 10%, but would the extra power matter for the 4 ohm speakers I've got?

Also I understand there is an outstanding issue with the mix down of the X4700H that may be corrected in the future, and if I get the X6700 i will have to ensure the serial number is greater than 860.

Which one would you pick and why? I'm new to much of this and really appreciate any guidance you give.

Thanks, Ron
A couple of thoughts in my opinion...
-From Amir’s review, all of the Denon’s don’t seem to have any issues with 4ohm speakers. You might keep an eye on temperature in particular if in a rack.
-Internal amp power differrence in any of them is pretty minimal, so if picking one over the other, I wouldn’t consider more power much of a difference
In case you haven’t seen it, the post by @bigguyca is a very nice rundown on the differences . X3700 really a great value if you don’t need any of the additional features of the higher models.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...8500h-x6700h-x4700h-and-x3700h-updated.15552/
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #9
I'm not sure that its lossless, but Netflix and the rest are slowly bringing out shows in HDR atmos, Dolbyvision etc. I'm getting 350Mb/s speed on the internet right now. Fast enough to handle my kid gaming on a 4K and me to be watching one too. Remember, I'm new at this so I may have holes in my understanding. Thats why I'm here, to learn.
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #10
A couple of thoughts in my opinion...
-From Amir’s review, all of the Denon’s don’t seem to have any issues with 4ohm speakers. You might keep an eye on temperature in particular if in a rack.
-Internal amp power differrence in any of them is pretty minimal, so if picking one over the other, I wouldn’t consider more power much of a difference
In case you haven’t seen it, the post by @bigguyca is a very nice rundown on the differences . X3700 really a great value if you don’t need any of the additional features of the higher models.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...8500h-x6700h-x4700h-and-x3700h-updated.15552/
Thank you for your help. I've seen that post, yet still can't decide. Its good, but my knowledge just isn't up to par to fully understand it. So my current AVR is a 140wpc Pioneer x92thx model. It is holding up ok, but im afraid that having a similarly powered amp with the added .4 content from them Atmos channels would be too much. Am I wrong? Maybe those atmos channels don't draw a lot of power? I have no experience with it and don't live in an area where I can just stop by a shop and ask. Add to that that my son has covid and we are just ending quarantine and you have the full picture...
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
88
Likes
71
#11
I would not bother with 6700h. If you want Auro3d, then choose 4700h. If you don't care about Auro3D, then just get 3700h. If you want to drive speakers harder and have the space, you are going to use external power amps. For 4 Ohm speakers, as i understand, you could drive them with AVR, but it is not recommended. Better to use external amps for 4 ohm speakers. I could be wrong, but that was the message i got here.
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #12
I would not bother with 6700h. If you want Auro3d, then choose 4700h. If you don't care about Auro3D, then just get 3700h. If you want to drive speakers harder and have the space, you are going to use external power amps. For 4 Ohm speakers, as i understand, you could drive them with AVR, but it is not recommended. Better to use external amps for 4 ohm speakers. I could be wrong, but that was the message i got here.
Thanks for the advice. Ive got a couple of 2 channel amps driving some speakers that hang around 2 ohms or less for much of their frequency range. The others are 4 ohms. The Emotiva C2 center is 4 ohms. And my surround LR are 4 ohms. The .4s are to be determined. I'm thinking the 4700 might be right. If it underperforms then i will have to go for a many channeled amp to help it out.. Im just a bit concerned about that down converting bug it has. Waiting for firmware to fix the issue seems a bit too much like vaporware to me.... At least with the 6700 there is a serial number associated with when the issue ended.
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #13
You have a tv/apps that handles lossless audio? Where will it go from here? What streaming service offers lossless audio codec? I live in the boonies myself and until we recently had an upgrade over dsl 4k streaming wasn't even possible. 1440 isn't a normal resolution could be why. The 3700 has pre-outs if you need to up the amp game....but I'd try without first.
I forgot, them1440 is a gaming resolution for tvs that don't have HDMI 2.1. Also I've read that these Dennons are having trouble with 4K 120 and vrr. These 120 and the vrr may have been fixed, but I don't think so. I'm learning about the Home theater stuff and gaming at the same time.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
88
Likes
71
#14
As I understand, 4700h is not the only Denon that suffers from down converting bug. You are reffering to bug that Amir discovered when you have multichannel source and you activate only 2 channel playback in AVR? So the AVR is left to downmix everything? That is not a problem if you use it as intended with mulctichannel playback. You just activate all the channels it has and you are fine.
As for 4k 120 and that stuff, I have no experience. They are first gen 2.1 HDMI devices, so....
I think you will not make a mistake with 4700h. You can always add external amps later, if underpowered.
 

Sancus

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
819
Likes
1,631
#15
I forgot, them1440 is a gaming resolution for tvs that don't have HDMI 2.1. Also I've read that these Dennons are having trouble with 4K 120 and vrr. These 120 and the vrr may have been fixed, but I don't think so. I'm learning about the Home theater stuff and gaming at the same time.
Well I'm not sure what your source device is but there's really no reason to pass PC video out through the AVR. You can connect directly to the TV and use eARC passthrough, or even use two HDMI connections as you can use a separate HDMI device for your audio in Windows.

The new Denons(3700, 4700, etc) are HDMI 2.1 and explicitly support VRR and 4K120hz though.
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #16
As I understand, 4700h is not the only Denon that suffers from down converting bug. You are reffering to bug that Amir discovered when you have multichannel source and you activate only 2 channel playback in AVR? So the AVR is left to downmix everything? That is not a problem if you use it as intended with mulctichannel playback. You just activate all the channels it has and you are fine.
As for 4k 120 and that stuff, I have no experience. They are first gen 2.1 HDMI devices, so....
I think you will not make a mistake with 4700h. You can always add external amps later, if underpowered.
Thank you for your reply,

About 20% of the time I stream 2 channel 24/96k from a chromecast audio via toslink into my AVR (for the Dac, which is better than the one in the chromecast audio) for 2 channel music. Sometimes I let the AVR do room correction and use the subwoofer, which means it goes through the processor section, sometimes I run it direct. Would this be a problem with that bug?

Thanks again,
Ron
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #17
Well I'm not sure what your source device is but there's really no reason to pass PC video out through the AVR. You can connect directly to the TV and use eARC passthrough, or even use two HDMI connections as you can use a separate HDMI device for your audio in Windows.

The new Denons(3700, 4700, etc) are HDMI 2.1 and explicitly support VRR and 4K120hz though.
Thank you for the reply,

Its not PC gaming, its console gaming from an Xbox series x, through the hdmi 2.1 into either the TV or AVR, im not sure which, although it would probably be the tv because of latency issues. I will probably run out of 2.1 connections though, because the TV has one and the AVR has 1, although I'm not sure if there is a work around for this. Maybe daisy chain them?
 

Sancus

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
819
Likes
1,631
#18
Thank you for the reply,

Its not PC gaming, its console gaming from an Xbox series x, through the hdmi 2.1 into either the TV or AVR, im not sure which, although it would probably be the tv because of latency issues. I will probably run out of 2.1 connections though, because the TV has one and the AVR has 1, although I'm not sure if there is a work around for this. Maybe daisy chain them?
eARC doesn't require an HDMI 2.1 connection, and it's usually one port on the TV. I would hope your TV's one HDMI 2.1 port is not also the ARC port, that would be unlucky, but a problem specific to that TV model.

In any case, yeah, you can only connect one HDMI 2.1 device to the TV OR AVR, since the AVR would require the TV's port to pass through 4K120. But since you only have one source that requires that it probably doesn't matter. Although I will note, while Xbox Series X technically supports 4K120, the target for the games is going to be 4K60, which means that 120hz support will likely be very rare and probably only in low quality graphics fast paced type games.
 
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
88
Likes
71
#19
Thank you for your reply,

About 20% of the time I stream 2 channel 24/96k from a chromecast audio via toslink into my AVR (for the Dac, which is better than the one in the chromecast audio) for 2 channel music. Sometimes I let the AVR do room correction and use the subwoofer, which means it goes through the processor section, sometimes I run it direct. Would this be a problem with that bug?

Thanks again,
Ron
AFAIK, no. You assign 11.1 or 11.2 channels in AVR and you can play 2 channel and multichannel content without degradation. The problem is when you assign only 2 channels, 2 physical speakers as your configuration in AVR. Amir configured it that way for testing purposes, and no one would likely notice the bug because why would you buy an AVR if you have 2 speakers only???
So, you connect all the speakers and amps you have and enjoy. You can use Audyssey and subwoofers, whatever... Don't worry about it.
At first, when I tried playing 2 channel content in Auro3D upmixer, it felt strange, but later i found it very pleasing. It is not gimmicky. It really helps with some poor produced 2 channel music. When i listen to good production stereo music, i listen to it in stereo as intended. I think you will enjoy Denon.
 
OP
S
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
47
Likes
16
Thread Starter #20
AFAIK, no. You assign 11.1 or 11.2 channels in AVR and you can play 2 channel and multichannel content without degradation. The problem is when you assign only 2 channels, 2 physical speakers as your configuration in AVR. Amir configured it that way for testing purposes, and no one would likely notice the bug because why would you buy an AVR if you have 2 speakers only???
So, you connect all the speakers and amps you have and enjoy. You can use Audyssey and subwoofers, whatever... Don't worry about it.
At first, when I tried playing 2 channel content in Auro3D upmixer, it felt strange, but later i found it very pleasing. It is not gimmicky. It really helps with some poor produced 2 channel music. When i listen to good production stereo music, i listen to it in stereo as intended. I think you will enjoy Denon.
Thanks for this great info. For all of the hundreds of posts read on this subjects in several threads, this one point was unclear. It makes sense now. I thought that once you went beyond Direct to include the processors various functions you got the bug, so to speak.

Still though, does the 1.4v noise threshold problem occur while playing 2 channel music with multiple channels configured? Im also confused by that one.

Thanks, Ron
 
Top Bottom